Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested?

Maintenance, accessories, operation. Anything to do with making your erg work.

Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby exerscreen » January 12th, 2018, 6:03 pm

Thanks for the kind words everyone! The iOS version of PainSled is starting to settle a bit in terms of bugs. Now it's time to think about whether I can take on the Android port, once again :) I had wondered how the cycling experience would work out with a rower and I'm happy to see that it's a reasonable fit. It might be heretical to say here, but I'm not sure simulating a rowing experience in the same way would work as well as just pretending you're a cyclist. Rowers are generally not found in a pack (unless something really bad has happened!), and then there's the whole looking backwards thing. Perhaps putting everyone in eights or those 24-rower Stamplfli monstrosities would work?

Thoughts?

Rick, PainSled Maker
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby dr3do » January 13th, 2018, 4:46 am

exerscreen wrote:and then there's the whole looking backwards thing.

Agree. In RL there‘s this (a bit stupid looking) RowBike. I could imagine, that an avatar like this would be a good compromise for Zwift.

exerscreen wrote:Thoughts?

If I had the choice, I would go with…

  • Bike = Bike
  • RowErg = RowBike*
  • SkiErg = RollSki* (double pole, diagonal)
  • Run = Run

* = With the implementaion of RowBike and RollSki „profiles“ the effort for Zwift would be in a good relation. RollSki users would use the same roads like Runners do and no need for new snowy worlds. RowBikers would use the same roads, but would have a new bike.


For me the benefits of Zwift are…

  • there are others (suffering?) too – means I‘m not „alone, forgot and lost“ in my paincave, can jump on my RowErg/SkiErg whenever I like (or have time), there‘s always someone online.
  • I‘m not starring every single day at the same fu**ing boring wall/PM
  • with that visual entertainment time passes away much (!!!) better
  • as row/ski are (from perspective of watt output) by far not that efficient as bike, I find it quite motivating to try to keep up with cyclists.
  • Gives me the possibility to do group rides, where I usually have to put up my weight by several kg, when using the the bike.


Cheers,
Boris
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby exerscreen » January 13th, 2018, 9:51 am

dr3do wrote:as row/ski are (from perspective of watt output) by far not that efficient as bike, I find it quite motivating to try to keep up with cyclists.


Boris,

PainSled applies a multiplier to get a rough match between row/ski and the cycling power levels in Zwift. This is kind of an intractable problem given that the actual sports are very different in real life. For example, a world class rower might have a physiology tuned for 5 minute sprints that are basically drag races. An equivalently elite cyclist might be optimized for 3-4 hour rides with flats, climbs, and decents. At the moment I multiply rowing watts by 1.25 to get cycling watts. The SkiErg multiplier is 1.5. I have a few testers who do Zwift on both bikes and the rower and they are giving me some feedback on how their FTP equates on both machines.

All that to say that you HAVE to keep up with the cyclists! Sorry!

Rick
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby dr3do » January 13th, 2018, 12:49 pm

exerscreen wrote:This is kind of an intractable problem given that the actual sports are very different in real life. [...] All that to say that you HAVE to keep up with the cyclists! Sorry!

Maybe my post was misleading, but I have no problem with that at all. I find it motivating to be able to keep up with cyclicst – I row/ski without multiplier (=watts are going 1:1 to Zwift). I know that there are efficiency differences between Bike/Row/Ski and that‘s perfectly fine for me.

On Bike I‘m an ‚A‘, on RowErg I‘m an ‚B‘ and on SkiErg I‘m an ‚C‘.
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby exerscreen » January 13th, 2018, 11:39 pm

dr3do wrote:
exerscreen wrote:This is kind of an intractable problem given that the actual sports are very different in real life. [...] All that to say that you HAVE to keep up with the cyclists! Sorry!

Maybe my post was misleading, but I have no problem with that at all. I find it motivating to be able to keep up with cyclicst – I row/ski without multiplier (=watts are going 1:1 to Zwift). I know that there are efficiency differences between Bike/Row/Ski and that‘s perfectly fine for me.

On Bike I‘m an ‚A‘, on RowErg I‘m an ‚B‘ and on SkiErg I‘m an ‚C‘.


You, sir, are a crazy man! ;)
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby at1839 » April 25th, 2018, 10:27 am

Yet another C2 to Zwift connector.

I do have a working PoC to allow riding in Zwift with the Concept2 rower.
When I say *working* what I mean is I rowed 1179 Km in Zwift with it until Mar 18, 2018,
completing the Everest challenge and completing the 7 stages of the Watopia tour.

Go to
https://diana.bib.uniurb.it/pyRide/pyRide.html
for further readings.

Have fun :) PaoloC
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby dr3do » April 25th, 2018, 11:01 am

What I find interesting about your solution… it looks like it’s possible to adjust power/rpm – I’m a big fan „1.0“ for Row- and SkiErg.

(Since some month I‘m using the CABLE, a little ANT2BLE brigde, which I also use with an older ANT-only powermeter to connect my GF‘s bike to Zwift on aTV.)
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby at1839 » April 25th, 2018, 4:29 pm

dr3do wrote:What I find interesting about your solution… it looks like it’s possible to adjust power/rpm – I’m a big fan „1.0“ for Row- and SkiErg.



It is, of course. It's a software solution.

ssh to your Rasp and pico /home/pi/vpower/row.py

POWER_ADJUST = 1.25
RPM_ADJUST = 3.3

edit ... reboot ...

Don't blame me if someone around will cheat. They do anywhere on Zwift.

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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby sander » April 26th, 2018, 5:14 am

Just wanted to mention that I do row most of my steady state ergo rows using Painsled and Zwift. I find it stimulating to see "other" people around, as well as being able to do one or two "full loops" during an hour of training, as opposed to the virtual kilometers on the PM5.

I have never used Zwift on a trainer bike. Is it true that the cyclists use their hands to send kudos and short chat messages during rides? I basically always set off and row, enjoying the scenery and the cyclists around, sometimes trying to catch up with someone, sometimes waiting for somebody who is just slightly slower, and see if we can ride along for a few virtual miles, but I have no way to interact with the Zwift screen during the row.

Thanks Rick for making this possible. Definitely an enhancement over just rowing in my rowing cave, and a pretty smooth experience setting it up.
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby dr3do » April 26th, 2018, 6:09 am

Is it true that the cyclists use their hands to send kudos and short chat messages during rides?

Mostly, yes. But it depends. Some cyclists are more chatty than others. But in general I would say that most of them are quite chatty.

Not being able to use our hands (as they are very busy with rowskierging) for communication is a little drawback. Some of my followers are smart enough ( B)) to realize/anticipate when I'm on RowErg (18-20 RPM) SkiErg (35-60 RPM) and when I'm on my Bike (85-110 RPM).
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby exerscreen » April 26th, 2018, 8:28 am

sander wrote:Thanks Rick for making this possible. Definitely an enhancement over just rowing in my rowing cave, and a pretty smooth experience setting it up.


You're welcome, Sander! There are still a few rough spots in the Zwift setup but I'm sending out a Testflight version today or tomorrow to try out some changes. Some of them are specific to the Apple TV version so might not be relevant to your setup. Zwift is still working out some connectivity bugs on their side as well. I've been thinking about the fact that we can't chime in like the bikers. I noticed some groups use a separate messaging system that is either audio or can do speech to text. Until something like that gets built into the game I guess we rowers will just have to be the strong, silent types.
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby warnie » April 26th, 2018, 4:29 pm

Once I get my concept 2 set up in my home gym I'd definitely be interested. I use the software on the bike and it would be nice to know effort was rewarded on zwift!!
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby dr3do » April 27th, 2018, 1:17 am

exerscreen wrote:I've been thinking about the fact that we can't chime in like the bikers. I noticed some groups use a separate messaging system that is either audio or can do speech to text.

Most of them use Discord (https://discordapp.com) for that purpose – very good cross plattform software.
Tried it once with an row session, but it didn‘t work work very well for me, as I need to breath in a certain pattern and really ( :? ) depend on the air I breath… there’s no room for talking, when on the erg.

Until something like that gets built into the game I guess we rowers will just have to be the strong, silent types.

:lol:
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby sander » April 27th, 2018, 8:20 am

exerscreen wrote:Until something like that gets built into the game I guess we rowers will just have to be the strong, silent types.


:D :D
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Re: Rowing in Zwift (high quality software) who's interested

Postby FRiC » May 12th, 2018, 12:32 am

at1839 wrote:Yet another C2 to Zwift connector.


Thanks to Paolo, I used this today and rowed 21K for the C2 global marathon. It's certainly interesting to see "competition" and not just drag on and on and on by myself. I read somewhere that the NPE CABLE device can be used to convert the PM5's ANT+FE-C signal to BLE. Maybe it's time to buy more stuff. :shock:

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