Protein Stuff

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Postby [old] widgeon » March 7th, 2006, 11:25 pm

Ben, <br />Yes, life has been shown to be 100% fatal....however, I don't think the "over consumption" of protein will be a factor! :lol: <br /><br /> Pam
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Postby [old] Steelhead » March 8th, 2006, 3:14 am

<!--quoteo(post=58721:date=Mar 7 2006, 03:14 PM:name=Ben Rea)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ben Rea @ Mar 7 2006, 03:14 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><b>"your total daily need for protein is about 20 to 30 grams"</b><br /><br /><br />AHHHHH!, I take in 40-50 grams a day!!!!! Am i going to die?<br /> </td></tr></table><br />I usually use Muscle Milk, but since my goal is to lose weight and maintain and increase muscle mass, I'm experimenting with this low protein information -- my Muscle Milk is now on hold. I still have a hard time believing that all I need is 20 to 30 grams of protein per day, but just eating a whole food, plant based diet I get way more than that without using a supplement. <br /><br />So far I've been testing this for a month and I'm still exercising and full of energy. The test will continue.<br /><br />Mike
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Postby [old] Ben Rea » March 8th, 2006, 8:06 pm

haha, u crack me up. I was being sarcastic anyway.<br /><br />Random fact #5846- 90% of the time in an e-mail the person recieving it cant tell the attitude of the person that dilivered it.<br /><br />minus the smiley's :)
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Postby [old] johnmcclellan » March 8th, 2006, 9:14 pm

<!--quoteo(post=58717:date=Mar 7 2006, 05:47 PM:name=Steelhead)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Steelhead @ Mar 7 2006, 05:47 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo(post=58693:date=Mar 6 2006, 09:46 PM:name=Yukon John)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Yukon John @ Mar 6 2006, 09:46 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quotec-->Unfortunately, that information is put out by the United Soy Bean Board, which obviously has a large financial interest in promoting the use of soy beans.<br /><br />Bob S. </td></tr></table><br />You are absolutely right Bob. That is been a lot of what the latter part of this thread has been about. Special interest groups support the side of the issue that they will gain from. It's hard for us (the general public) to make an informed decision on issues such as soy, genetically altered foods, diets, the benefits of wonder foods from oat bran to fish when the perception of the products (or eating habits) affects what gets bought (and who gets rich.) :( :cry:<br /> </td></tr></table><br />I agree. Here's one more point of view vis-a-vis soy protein: <a href="http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/april/050400pusoy.htm" target="_blank">http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl/april/050400pusoy.htm</a> <br /><br />Also, can we eat too much protein? Are we being manipulated by those selling protein supplements?<br /><br /><a href="http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/040100puproteinoverload.htm" target="_blank">http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougall/0...einoverload.htm</a> <br /><br />Mike<br /> </td></tr></table><br />And from way out there...the ultimate source on the protein debate. I tune into David Lee Roth's radio show for the first time this morning, and who is he talking to but the Motor City Madman himself, Ted Nugent. Ted took a good 5 minutes to explain the nutritional virtues of wild game, "the most pure and wonderful source of protein ever created on our beautiful planet" (or something like that), as well as the only proper way to gain access to that protein, bow hunting, so that "you can use all of your cunning and senses to overcome the tremendous natural defense mechanisms that animals have so that men can't get close to them." So toss your supplements (whey or soy), forget about supermarket beef and farm-raised fish, grab your bow and arrow and get the real stuff! And as Ted said, he explains it all at www.tednugent.com&#33;<br /><br />Needless to say, I'm looking forward to tomorrow so that I can learn more about nutrition from the rock stars of my misspent youth.<br /><br />(Ben, guess my attitude!)
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Postby [old] widgeon » March 10th, 2006, 12:01 am

Ben, of course you were being sarcastic. And I was being a smarta__ with my reply. Since sarcasm comes from the latin root sarcos which means to rip and tear flesh will my daily protein requirement increase if I engage in sarcastic banter? Guess I better go mix up a whey protein shake to be on the safe side!<br /><br />Cheers!<br /><br />Pam
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Postby [old] DIESEL » March 10th, 2006, 2:01 am

<!--quoteo(post=58721:date=Mar 7 2006, 06:14 PM:name=Ben Rea)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ben Rea @ Mar 7 2006, 06:14 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><b>"your total daily need for protein is about 20 to 30 grams"</b><br /><br /><br />AHHHHH!, I take in 40-50 grams a day!!!!! Am i going to die?<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />No. Stop listening to the eggheads. M.D.s are the last guys I turn to for training/nutrition advice. Most aren't athletes - most are basically talking out of their ass. Like this Dr. McDougall character..<br /><br />Dr. McDougall is stuck in the 70's preaching that Pritikin diet nonsense. virtually no protein - high starch - low fat diet. Brilliant. You'll always be hungry. Hope you love to do lots of cardio and aren't at risk for diabetes..... :D <br /><br /><br />
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Postby [old] Ben Rea » March 10th, 2006, 12:46 pm

you guys are funny, <br /><br /><br /><br />i guess i will stop listening to egg heads, of course i would have to stop listening to you then :P
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Postby [old] johnmcclellan » March 10th, 2006, 1:13 pm

<!--quoteo(post=58932:date=Mar 10 2006, 11:46 AM:name=Ben Rea)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ben Rea @ Mar 10 2006, 11:46 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><br />i guess i will stop listening to egg heads, of course i would have to stop listening to you then :P<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Eggs are a great source of protein - one of the most complete. Probably 2nd only to Ted Nugent's wild game. But you should get a lot more than McDougall recommends.<br />
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Postby [old] DIESEL » March 10th, 2006, 1:42 pm

<!--quoteo(post=58932:date=Mar 10 2006, 11:46 AM:name=Ben Rea)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ben Rea @ Mar 10 2006, 11:46 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>you guys are funny, <br /><br /><br /><br />i guess i will stop listening to egg heads, of course i would have to stop listening to you then :P<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't really care if you listen to me or not. I share what has worked for me and others whom I have trained with. Take what I write and try out and see if it works for you. If it does, cool - if doesn't - that's feedback you use to tweak it till it works for you. Either way, makes no difference to me. We are just words on a computer screen here. I don't recommend doing something unless I've tried it myself. <br /><br />I slag on soy because I worked at a vegetarian/whole foods type restaurant for almost 2 years and did actively include soy in my diet. The result: the totals on most of my lifts went down. As I started researching why this was the case - voila - all this bad stuff about soy seemed to give me an explanation. As soon as I dropped the soy, the totals started creeping up again. (as presumably my Test levels started rising again) I can pretty much tell you this based on the feedback I've gotten (I've kept pretty detailed training/food logs over the last 7 years) that if you are training hard (lifting and rowing) you have to give your body enough calories to not only fuel the workouts BUT REPAIR ITSELF AFTERWARDS - that's where the progress and growth come in. - NOT IN THE GYM, BUT IN YOUR BED WHILE YOU SLEEP. Now, how the h*** are you supposed to do all that on 20-30g of protein? Please. Tell that to some Olympic level athlete/coach or a D1/NFL Strength and Conditioning coach and see what they tell you about Dr. McDougall's advice. <br /><br />Just because the guy is an M.D. doesn't mean shit in my book. Bad advice is bad advice no matter the source. A fancy degree is no substitute for the crucible of actual athletic training and achievement. I'd listen to what Xeno said over anything the most bad ass M.D. told me about rowing training. Why? Xeno has the gold, the M.D. doesn't. It's that simple. <br /><br />For example, my older brother is an M.D. a pediatric gastroenterologist, and an enthusiastic rower/kayaker - but yet he comes to me for training advice. You don't learn about sports nutrition or training in Medical school. <br /><br />Basically, take everything you read here (my posts included) with a grain of salt, and emulate Bruce Lee - approach everything with an open mind, give it a shot, and use what works for you and dump what doesn't. <br /><br />peace and good luck! <br />D
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Postby [old] johnmcclellan » March 10th, 2006, 1:59 pm

<!--quoteo(post=58941:date=Mar 10 2006, 12:42 PM:name=DIESEL)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(DIESEL @ Mar 10 2006, 12:42 PM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--quoteo(post=58932:date=Mar 10 2006, 11:46 AM:name=Ben Rea)--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Ben Rea @ Mar 10 2006, 11:46 AM) </b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>you guys are funny, <br /><br /><br /><br />i guess i will stop listening to egg heads, of course i would have to stop listening to you then :P<br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I don't really care if you listen to me or not. I share what has worked for me and others whom I have trained with. Take what I write and try out and see if it works for you. If it does, cool - if doesn't - that's feedback you use to tweak it till it works for you. Either way, makes no difference to me. We are just words on a computer screen here. I don't recommend doing something unless I've tried it myself. <br /><br />I slag on soy because I worked at a vegetarian/whole foods type restaurant for almost 2 years and did actively include soy in my diet. The result: the totals on most of my lifts went down. As I started researching why this was the case - voila - all this bad stuff about soy seemed to give me an explanation. As soon as I dropped the soy, the totals started creeping up again. (as presumably my Test levels started rising again) I can pretty much tell you this based on the feedback I've gotten (I've kept pretty detailed training/food logs over the last 7 years) that if you are training hard (lifting and rowing) you have to give your body enough calories to not only fuel the workouts BUT REPAIR ITSELF AFTERWARDS - that's where the progress and growth come in. - NOT IN THE GYM, BUT IN YOUR BED WHILE YOU SLEEP. Now, how the h*** are you supposed to do all that on 20-30g of protein? Please. Tell that to some Olympic level athlete/coach or a D1/NFL Strength and Conditioning coach and see what they tell you about Dr. McDougall's advice. <br /><br />Just because the guy is an M.D. doesn't mean shit in my book. Bad advice is bad advice no matter the source. A fancy degree is no substitute for the crucible of actual athletic training and achievement. I'd listen to what Xeno said over anything the most bad ass M.D. told me about rowing training. Why? Xeno has the gold, the M.D. doesn't. It's that simple. <br /><br />For example, my older brother is an M.D. a pediatric gastroenterologist, and an enthusiastic rower/kayaker - but yet he comes to me for training advice. You don't learn about sports nutrition or training in Medical school. <br /><br />Basically, take everything you read here (my posts included) with a grain of salt, and emulate Bruce Lee - approach everything with an open mind, give it a shot, and use what works for you and dump what doesn't. <br /><br />peace and good luck! <br />D<br /> </td></tr></table><br />Diesel,<br />THat's a great post - in Ultrarunner Magazine there is a regular column called "The Experiment of One", and you've applied a lot of rigor to your experiment, and are obviously pleased with the results. I am going to try to do some more rigorous tracking on the effect of soy in my diet - I don't have much, so it would be pretty easy to leave out, but I haven't experienced any measurable downside to date. By the way, Michael Ross (who is a Dr., but also an athlete and rigorous researcher) has a book, Maximum Performance:Sports Medicine for Endurance Athlete, in which he summarizes some interesting research on maximizing natural production of HGH and testosterone through the type of workouts you do and the type and timing of nutrition and rest. Few people seem to understand your point about getting stronger after you train and why recovery - both nutrition immediately after workout, and rest - is so critical. You are likely to be familiar with the research already, but thought I would throw it out.
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Postby [old] Ben Rea » March 12th, 2006, 10:51 am

hey guys, thanks for all that info, especially DIESEL, but you dont need to be writing essays!!!!!! <br /><br /><br />and by the way. im still using the supplement protein shake :P
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