What Times Are Needed To Be Recruited For College?

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Postby [old] Sirrowsalot » February 28th, 2005, 2:43 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-starboardrigged1seat+Feb 28 2005, 01:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(starboardrigged1seat @ Feb 28 2005, 01:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Sirrowsalot+Feb 28 2005, 11:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Sirrowsalot @ Feb 28 2005, 11:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-starboardrigged1seat+Feb 27 2005, 06:39 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(starboardrigged1seat @ Feb 27 2005, 06:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-bsemaiktehr+Feb 27 2005, 04:37 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(bsemaiktehr @ Feb 27 2005, 04:37 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That is absolutely absurd. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />It's not. It might be hard for a heavyweight as slow as you to conceptualize people going that fast, but there is alot of speed within the better college lightweight teams. When I was your age, I was 158 pounds and pulled a 6:36. And I was about average on my high school crew team.<br />Edit: I also did a 30 minute test with a 22 rating cap and pulled 8300m, now that I look at my old results. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's incredibly impressive for a high school team. If 6:36 was really an average time, you guys should have all gone to the Crash-B's, you would have dominated the rankings. Even your average 6:36 would have put you close to the top 5 junior lightweight men in the world, and your above-average buddies would have medaled without a problem. In fact, forget the Crash-B's, you guys should have all been on the junior national team.<br /><a href='http://www.crash-b.org/cb2005/results/event05-lwt.html' target='_blank'>http://www.crash-b.org/cb2005/results/event05-lwt.html</a> <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I was a light heavyweight rowing with other heavyweights for those two years. 6:36 is an extremely reasonable average for a heavyweight high school crew. And some of us did go to CRASH-B's every year. Others swim during the winter, others train on their own. For the record, one of my teammates did go to Selection Camp that summer, and we medaled at every one of our championship races that spring, winning most of our races. What did you do last year?<br />In addition, it is not uncommon for an incoming freshman class at a DI lightweight program to have everyone between 6:45 and 6:30, based on times they pulled in their senior year of high school. I don't see why this is such a big deal. If you don't like these scores, sack up and pull some better ones.<br /><br />Edit: While the top 3% of lets say the competitive lightweight jr rowers in the "world" go, attendance at CRASH-B's is nowhere indicative of the rowing world. There are plenty of internationals that don't bother showing up, plenty of West Coast kids that don't show up (unless they have a good shot at winning), plenty of New England school kids who were doing other sports during the winter. Look at the results from Junior Worlds and Under 23's...do you think that you're seeing nearly all of those athletes here? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I guess I misinterpreted what you wrote (as did Ranger)--I thought you meant that you rowed on a <i>lightweight </i>crew in HS with an average time of 6:36--my fault for assuming, but that would have indeed been incredibly impressive. For a heavyweight crew it is impressive but not as remarkable.<br /><br />I'm not sure why you're getting defensive--no offense was intended. Also, I do understand that the rowing world is by on means completely represented at the CRASH-B's. Again, based on my misinterpretation that you were on a lightweight High School Crew with an average erg of 6:36, I noticed that that would allow you to dominate the Crash-B's,<br />
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Postby [old] starboardrigged1seat » February 28th, 2005, 2:53 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Sirrowsalot+Feb 28 2005, 01:43 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Sirrowsalot @ Feb 28 2005, 01:43 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-starboardrigged1seat+Feb 28 2005, 01:00 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(starboardrigged1seat @ Feb 28 2005, 01:00 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-Sirrowsalot+Feb 28 2005, 11:09 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Sirrowsalot @ Feb 28 2005, 11:09 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-starboardrigged1seat+Feb 27 2005, 06:39 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(starboardrigged1seat @ Feb 27 2005, 06:39 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-bsemaiktehr+Feb 27 2005, 04:37 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(bsemaiktehr @ Feb 27 2005, 04:37 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->That is absolutely absurd. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />It's not. It might be hard for a heavyweight as slow as you to conceptualize people going that fast, but there is alot of speed within the better college lightweight teams. When I was your age, I was 158 pounds and pulled a 6:36. And I was about average on my high school crew team.<br />Edit: I also did a 30 minute test with a 22 rating cap and pulled 8300m, now that I look at my old results. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />That's incredibly impressive for a high school team. If 6:36 was really an average time, you guys should have all gone to the Crash-B's, you would have dominated the rankings. Even your average 6:36 would have put you close to the top 5 junior lightweight men in the world, and your above-average buddies would have medaled without a problem. In fact, forget the Crash-B's, you guys should have all been on the junior national team.<br /><a href='http://www.crash-b.org/cb2005/results/event05-lwt.html' target='_blank'>http://www.crash-b.org/cb2005/results/event05-lwt.html</a> <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I was a light heavyweight rowing with other heavyweights for those two years. 6:36 is an extremely reasonable average for a heavyweight high school crew. And some of us did go to CRASH-B's every year. Others swim during the winter, others train on their own. For the record, one of my teammates did go to Selection Camp that summer, and we medaled at every one of our championship races that spring, winning most of our races. What did you do last year?<br />In addition, it is not uncommon for an incoming freshman class at a DI lightweight program to have everyone between 6:45 and 6:30, based on times they pulled in their senior year of high school. I don't see why this is such a big deal. If you don't like these scores, sack up and pull some better ones.<br /><br />Edit: While the top 3% of lets say the competitive lightweight jr rowers in the "world" go, attendance at CRASH-B's is nowhere indicative of the rowing world. There are plenty of internationals that don't bother showing up, plenty of West Coast kids that don't show up (unless they have a good shot at winning), plenty of New England school kids who were doing other sports during the winter. Look at the results from Junior Worlds and Under 23's...do you think that you're seeing nearly all of those athletes here? <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I guess I misinterpreted what you wrote (as did Ranger)--I thought you meant that you rowed on a <i>lightweight </i>crew in HS with an average time of 6:36--my fault for assuming, but that would have indeed been incredibly impressive. For a heavyweight crew it is impressive but not as remarkable.<br /><br />I'm not sure why you're getting defensive--no offense was intended. Also, I do understand that the rowing world is by on means completely represented at the CRASH-B's. Again, based on my misinterpretation that you were on a lightweight High School Crew with an average erg of 6:36, I noticed that that would allow you to dominate the Crash-B's, <br /> </td></tr></table><br />(wow, that's a ton of script)<br />It's cool. The Marin lightweight 8 that won Cinnci last year had everyone save 2 under 6:40, including the Jr. Lightweight that won CRASH-B's at stroke, so it's not particularly uncommon to have really fast lightweights bunched together in one program. In fact, I'd be willing to say that scores like that are more likely to be bunched together in one program, as the level of competition and training that brought one kid to that level also brings up the guy ahead and in front of him.
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Postby [old] Robbo » February 28th, 2005, 6:04 pm

The speed of youth is amazing. If you check the Australian rankings you will find 7 out of 9 top ten lightweights have times ranging from 6.28.9 to 6.44.8 with a median age of 16.<br />The young heavyweights are even faster!<br />What makes them so fast? They are not near their peak strength.
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Postby [old] Jim Barry » February 28th, 2005, 6:26 pm

Re: Rangers question about how fast college lightweights are. <br /><br />Here's a sample from Harvard's Crash-B results. <br /><br /><br />Stephens,Dave.......... Harvard University Crew............ 06:17.3<br />Geddes,Jonah............Harvard University Crew............ 06:29.8<br />McCaffrey,Kevin........ Harvard University Crew............ 06:33.4<br />Reid,Dan...................Harvard University Crew............ 06:35.7<br />Kauble,Wes............... Harvard University Crew............ 06:36.1<br />Mezzina,Paul............. Harvard University Crew............ 06:36.6<br />Schellhorn,Chip......... Harvard University Crew............ 06:41.3<br />Spong,Mark.............. Harvard University Crew............ 06:52.4<br />Dugan,Kevin............. Harvard University Crew............ 06:53.7<br />Schultink,Erik............ Harvard University Crew............ 06:59.1<br /><br />Average : 6:39. <br /><br />In 2004 Harvard lightweights won just about everything they raced in (but oddly not the IRA championships). <br /><br /><br /><br />
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Postby [old] starboardrigged1seat » February 28th, 2005, 6:29 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-Jim Barry+Feb 28 2005, 05:26 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Jim Barry @ Feb 28 2005, 05:26 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Re: Rangers question about how fast college lightweights are. <br /><br />Here's a sample from Harvard's Crash-B results. <br /><br /><br />Stephens,Dave.......... Harvard University Crew............ 06:17.3<br />Geddes,Jonah............Harvard University Crew............ 06:29.8<br />McCaffrey,Kevin........ Harvard University Crew............ 06:33.4<br />Reid,Dan...................Harvard University Crew............ 06:35.7<br />Kauble,Wes............... Harvard University Crew............ 06:36.1<br />Mezzina,Paul............. Harvard University Crew............ 06:36.6<br />Schellhorn,Chip......... Harvard University Crew............ 06:41.3<br />Spong,Mark.............. Harvard University Crew............ 06:52.4<br />Dugan,Kevin............. Harvard University Crew............ 06:53.7<br />Schultink,Erik............ Harvard University Crew............ 06:59.1<br /><br />Average : 6:39. <br /><br />In 2004 Harvard lightweights won just about everything they raced in (but oddly not the IRA championships). <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I don't think that's a fair sampling of their crew team. I know that not nearly all of their top 8 is represented there, let alone the rest of their squad. But I think the faster numbers are more indicative of their strength than the slower ones.
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Postby [old] Almostflipped » February 28th, 2005, 7:30 pm

Interesting little tid bit. Unless I'm mistaken, Todd Jonah-Geddes has pulled that exact time (give or take a tenth of a second) for the last 4 years. Love to know what's going on there. In any case, most Harvard rowers do not show up. More of a freshman thing to my understanding.<br /><br />BTW, Dave Stephens is in an off year as he is returning from Olympic training. An interview in Rowing News states his pb was about 6:12 a year ago. It should also be pointed out that Harvard has had someone near 6:10 nearly every year for the last few years (Yale also prior to 2004).<br /><br />Jim Barry: Harvard never wins in an even year. It's one of those odd unwritten rules of the universe. Has been in effect since the mid 90's.
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Postby [old] Jim Barry » February 28th, 2005, 9:49 pm

AF SR1S,<br /><br />Yes, I agree this sampling is probably not their top rowers. <br /><br />I still wonder what the faster rowers had to do on that Sunday that they could not take the T over to Roxbury and hammer out a good 2k for the crew (even support the freshman). 2k's are still fun when you are that young, right? <br /><br /><br />---Jim
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Postby [old] Almostflipped » February 28th, 2005, 11:36 pm

The reason the basic college rower won't do this in some ways comes down to a difference in the view of erging. For many on this board, erging is a sport with competitions and titles to win. For most rowers it is solely something to do in order to win on the water. What one pulls at an "erg race" is arbitrary and meaningless. The only real purpose behind a 2k is to be selected to a boat or to track one's training. What counts is whether you get across the finish line first at Sprints. This is much the same reason why the better guys don't bother posting on the C2 boards, for them there is no real reason to. If anything it has always struck me as somewhat taboo to brag about 2k's or to ask about them if you are a rower of any ability or character. This is my take on the situation and how my friends have always viewed it, there could be other reasons depending on the programs. I don't say this to knock erging, just to explain a different viewpoint. Basically as a good friend put it this year, "Why would I pay to go pull a 2k for no reason, when I could just stay home and do it.....and why would I do that either?"
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Postby [old] Jim Barry » March 1st, 2005, 3:32 pm

AF,<br /><br />Yeah, I see your point. When I rowed with a crew, the erg score was not really all that spoken of too. It was sort of instict that bragging about your erg score and then not making a boat meant one thing: you must not row well. It was best just to keep these things quiet. As a crew that depended on the ablities of others we did like to hear "improvement" stories. Years later and no longer connected to water rowing, I forget that the 2k test is such a deal for college rowers. When I was in school, I always thought the erg was a torture device. The irony that I actually bought one is funny. I got it to get lose some weight and a year later I was at the crash-b's racing again (and remembering that I hate ergs). The erg is like a rock in your life. It never changes. You do. <br /><br />
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Postby [old] Almostflipped » March 1st, 2005, 8:10 pm

Jim,<br /><br />I'm only a few years out of college but I have to tell you, I also have had something of a 180 in the way I view the 2k. Used to make a big deal out of it. Now a days though, I just view it as another fun piece that challenges me. Shift in attitude makes a difference in performance too I think.<br /><br />In regards to improvement stories, yeah that we always enjoyed. It was one thing for someone to come up and be happy about hitting a new pr or making a big jump and another entirely to "brag" about it. Two different intents and two different reactions.
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Postby [old] allapologies916 » March 6th, 2005, 1:14 am

Actually, the average 2k of a recruiting northern school at sprints is 6:45-6:40 for a freshman lightweight 8... and thats a few seconds faster than what it probably actually is...
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Postby [old] starboardrigged1seat » March 8th, 2005, 1:14 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-allapologies916+Mar 6 2005, 12:14 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(allapologies916 @ Mar 6 2005, 12:14 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, the average 2k of a recruiting northern school at sprints is 6:45-6:40 for a freshman lightweight 8... and thats a few seconds faster than what it probably actually is... <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Maybe a school with a slow incoming class.
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Postby [old] Number Six » March 15th, 2005, 9:01 pm

I just Read a good BLOG on this exact subject located at www.gorow.com<br /><br />It is written by Xeno Muller
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Postby [old] becz » March 16th, 2005, 10:34 am

<!--QuoteBegin-starboardrigged1seat+Mar 8 2005, 12:14 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(starboardrigged1seat @ Mar 8 2005, 12:14 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-allapologies916+Mar 6 2005, 12:14 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(allapologies916 @ Mar 6 2005, 12:14 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, the average 2k of a recruiting northern school at sprints is 6:45-6:40 for a freshman lightweight 8... and thats a few seconds faster than what it probably actually is... <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Maybe a school with a slow incoming class. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dude, lose the attitude. I'm sure a large number of the lightweights in any age bracket, including myself, can outdo your 2k time, so humility is always the right approach. So are you going to disagree with Xeno Muller on a good junior 2k time? Sure, the top one or two guys at the big D1 schools will be sub 6:20 (look at the national team test scores just before the Olys), but to suggest that most of the incoming freshman class will be is ridiculous.<br />
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Postby [old] starboardrigged1seat » March 16th, 2005, 4:34 pm

<!--QuoteBegin-becz+Mar 16 2005, 09:34 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(becz @ Mar 16 2005, 09:34 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-starboardrigged1seat+Mar 8 2005, 12:14 PM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(starboardrigged1seat @ Mar 8 2005, 12:14 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin-allapologies916+Mar 6 2005, 12:14 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(allapologies916 @ Mar 6 2005, 12:14 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Actually, the average 2k of a recruiting northern school at sprints is 6:45-6:40 for a freshman lightweight 8... and thats a few seconds faster than what it probably actually is... <br /> </td></tr></table><br />Maybe a school with a slow incoming class. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Dude, lose the attitude. I'm sure a large number of the lightweights in any age bracket, including myself, can outdo your 2k time, so humility is always the right approach. So are you going to disagree with Xeno Muller on a good junior 2k time? Sure, the top one or two guys at the big D1 schools will be sub 6:20 (look at the national team test scores just before the Olys), but to suggest that most of the incoming freshman class will be is ridiculous. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />I said that the top recruit will often be around 6:20 for a 2k. Look at Harvard freshman lightweights this year. There seems to be a Swiss kid who agrees with me. Look at the Dane (going to Yale???) who went 6:17 in the Junior Lightweight event at CRASH-B's. I'm talking from experience, and yes, 6:45 will attract the attention of Ivy League coaches, but if you want to be in the top 8 recruits at most strong programs, you should be under 6:40. It's a fact. I was recruited with a 6:36, and was not near the top of my recruiting class. A 6:45 for a high school junior lightweight is definitely headed in the right direction to get recruited, but there are really fast lightweights out there. I still don't see why everyone wants to argue this point with me. <br />And becz, I have no idea who you are. You don't know who I am either. And quite frankly, I don't care what your 2k is. It has nothing to do with whether I am right or wrong.<br />
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