I'm very slow...

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I'm very slow...

Postby Hurstie » March 17th, 2013, 7:52 am

Hi everyone.

Little bit of background, I started rowing in August 2012. Before I started rowing I did lots of weightlifting (squats/deadlifts/cleans etc) and never did any fitness work, EVER. So when I started rowing my fitness levels were non-existent.
I jumped on the erg in my gym a week before I started on the water just to see what I could do. After spending a while practicing technique with a video tutorial in front of me and recording myself and making adjustments, I tried a 2k. I had no idea about strategies or anything so i just decided to sit on a 2:00 split for the whole thing then sprint the last 400 or so metres. My time was 7:46.5.

I started following the Concept 2 Interactive 2k Training Plan and 8 weeks later, after 3 times a week on the erg, I pulled a 7:45.8. It's safe to say I was VERY disappointed with how little I had gained in 2 months.
I'm planning to do another 2k test this week, Wednesday or Friday and from the training pieces I have done I KNOW I can get sub 7:40. This is still very slow though. It's especially disheartening to hear people my age, first time on an erg getting sub 7 minute 2k times.

I suppose my questions are, being so slow now, can I ever hope to be quick? I'd love to pull a 2k under 7 minutes by the end of the year, is that possible?

For the record I turned 20 years old yesterday, I'm 193cm tall and weigh around 82kg. I'm going to start putting some weight on over the summer too, maybe help with the power.
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby jamesg » March 18th, 2013, 2:12 am

Your problem is 100% technique. Suggest you spend the next 6 months pulling full length strokes at full force, 20 minutes a day after warmup, at a rating that lets you survive: i.e. low. Low drag too, 3 is enough, (120-130 drag factor). A reasonably easy initial target is 200W at rating 20.

At height 193, full length means you can touch the chainguard at the catch, but don't bring the slide too far forward: use your shoulders, shins vertical, thighs at 45°. In numbers, the net stroke length can be 70% of your height, 135 cm, overall including slack 150 cm or more. Don't worry about a hard long finish, the real work is done with the legs in the first half of the stroke. The right recovery sequence (which you'll have already if you want to avoid swimming) is hands away, then body swing, then slide.

The erg gives strong technical feedback: just watch the Watt/Rating ratio. To get to a 7 minute 2k, all you need do is pull 10 W' strokes at rate 30. Start by being better than me; I work at 7.5 to 8. With your age and height, 12 is a stroll, but has to be done aplenty to get some CV fitness.

Of course if you don't get your technique right, this lady would skin you alive:
http://www.britishrowing.org/taking-par ... ing-stroke

Every detail of the stroke in those pics is critical.

Another way of gauging a training level is to do a max test: warm up well, then pull 20 strokes, of which the last 10 absolutely flat out as to length and force, at a rating that lets you pull full length; then train at half that power, at a rating slightly above half the test rating.
76y, 188cm, 86kg, MHR 170. 3km/h in water, 10km/h on. Last 2k (1-16) 8.10@26
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby Carl Watts » March 18th, 2013, 2:34 am

Yes I would have to agree with you for your height and age thats a very slow time.

I would suggest your Cardio system is just falling over, it's going to be a problem for anyone doing just weights at the gym.

My sugestion is to build up to longer rows of about 30 to 40 minutes at a slower pace and begin to build your base fitness. Done right you should see rapid gains in 6 months, especially if your a non smoker.

You will have to train 4 or 5 times a week and if just the Erg is a broblem then break it up with other cardio gear like the bike and the stepper like 15 min on each.

At least with the weights you should be able to slow down your rating or strokes per minute and focus on the technique.

The Drag Factor is important so find it on the screen and set it each time you get on the rower so it is consistant each row as each machine will be different even with the same lever setting.
Carl Watts.
Age:50 Weight: 98kg Height:183cm Body fat:20%
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby hjs » March 18th, 2013, 4:58 am

What are your strenght levels, most guy pull a good 2k right away if they have a good strenghtbase. Rowing is a lot about power.
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby Hurstie » March 18th, 2013, 5:53 pm

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I might record myself erging this week and post it here...

hjs wrote:What are your strenght levels, most guy pull a good 2k right away if they have a good strenghtbase. Rowing is a lot about power.


1RM
Squat: 120kg
Deadlift: 137.5kg
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby Carl Watts » March 19th, 2013, 12:42 am

hjs wrote:What are your strenght levels, most guy pull a good 2k right away if they have a good strenghtbase. Rowing is a lot about power.


Only if your cardio system can back it up for the duration of the 2K.

I always had a good 500M time but the wheels fell off when it came to the 2K. The 500M is totally about power but it is so different to the 2K if all you have ever done is strength work like weights. Worse still weights are slow when you look at the time it takes to do 10 reps compared to the time it takes to do 10 spm while rating at 30+ for the 2Km. Thats 20 seconds for your 10 reps at the gym and you just don't train like that let alone keep doing that constantly without rest for several minutes, even with lighter weights !

The problem is that you can have no balance of power vs endurance. It really shows up if you look at a persons results across the whole range of events from the 500M to the FM. The longer the distance the less power you need but if you have that aerobic fitness you can cane the big guys at the gym.
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby hjs » March 19th, 2013, 3:41 am

Carl Watts wrote:
hjs wrote:What are your strenght levels, most guy pull a good 2k right away if they have a good strenghtbase. Rowing is a lot about power.


Only if your cardio system can back it up for the duration of the 2K.

I always had a good 500M time but the wheels fell off when it came to the 2K. The 500M is totally about power but it is so different to the 2K if all you have ever done is strength work like weights. Worse still weights are slow when you look at the time it takes to do 10 reps compared to the time it takes to do 10 spm while rating at 30+ for the 2Km. Thats 20 seconds for your 10 reps at the gym and you just don't train like that let alone keep doing that constantly without rest for several minutes, even with lighter weights !

The problem is that you can have no balance of power vs endurance. It really shows up if you look at a persons results across the whole range of events from the 500M to the FM. The longer the distance the less power you need but if you have that aerobic fitness you can cane the big guys at the gym.


Yes partly true, but if you have a good 500 you never have a very slow 2k, certainly the guys who suat and deadlift have ok ish fitness, I pulled 6.39 the very first time I did a 2k, with no endurence training, but I did my best with the weights.
Rating IU don,t see a problem, do one serious squat set and if that does not get you blowing you simply are taking it way o easy. Strong guys in the gym I have seen always could pull an ok 2k, although mostly and die.
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby hjs » March 19th, 2013, 3:43 am

Hurstie wrote:Thanks for the feedback everyone, I might record myself erging this week and post it here...

hjs wrote:What are your strenght levels, most guy pull a good 2k right away if they have a good strenghtbase. Rowing is a lot about power.


1RM
Squat: 120kg
Deadlift: 137.5kg


Strange, with your height and these numbers there must be something with your technique. Maybe show a vid of it.
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby Hurstie » March 19th, 2013, 9:05 am

Ill post a video on Thursday.

What should I do in the video?
Slow rating? Fast? Put power down? Just paddle?

Also, I always rate low (25-28) should I be rating a lot higher in 2k tests?
I prefer to have a longer recovery and pull harder than shorten the recovery though.
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby hjs » March 19th, 2013, 1:14 pm

Hurstie wrote:Ill post a video on Thursday.

What should I do in the video?
Slow rating? Fast? Put power down? Just paddle?

Also, I always rate low (25-28) should I be rating a lot higher in 2k tests?
I prefer to have a longer recovery and pull harder than shorten the recovery though.



Row how you row at say 80/90% effort, simply dhow wht you do, don,t try to make it look good for the video. And try to ilm it from the side with no angle.

For a 2k rating should be 30 as a minimum, but a higher rate should give you extra pace. If not thefe is no point rating higher. Recovery should be relax, that is the right way.
For training 25/28 s not low btw.
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby Hurstie » March 23rd, 2013, 1:58 pm

did the 2k yesterday.

average rating was like 26.
I got 7:36.2, only sprinted the last 100-150 metres though.

Im pretty sure i can go under 7:30.

Havent got the video yet,
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Re: I'm very slow...

Postby zackhurlie » March 3rd, 2014, 2:57 pm

Well, I have rowed something more than 1.3 MM meters and I pay little attention to time. I just make sure I make it to 6,000 meters each time. Sometimes I can do that in 30 minutes. Sometimes in 31 or 32. I focus on technique. It works for me because when I have tried training methods, I found myself not liking the rowing and making excuses to not do it. I suppose this puts me in the sluggard category, but it seems to work for me.
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