Pete Plan 2017

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.

Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby derico » August 11th, 2017, 9:01 am

@Tom - that is a most impressive interval session, strongly hinting at sub 7 IMHO
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby DNA_Rower » August 11th, 2017, 11:19 am

JerekKruger wrote:Pete Plan 3.1: 4x1000m/5:00r
3:26.1 (1:43.0 average) at 29SPM, HR 177
3:25.7 (1:42.8 average) at 29SPM, HR 184
3:26.5 (1:43.2 average) at 30SPM, HR 185
3:31.5 (1:45.7 average) at 29SPM, HR 185
Average: 1:43.7 at 29SPM
r: 2117m

I'd forgotten how miserable this session is: four intervals seems much more manageable than seven or eight of the other two speed sessions, but keeping up pace for 1k is a lot harder than for 500m or even 750m. My aim was to go sub 1:44, which I got, but I am annoyed at myself for the last interval. It was definitely unpleasant, but I should still have been able to push through the pain and stay under 1:44. Still, session done, which is the main thing.

This session does demonstrate why I am not entirely confident in a sub 7 minute 2k though: my speed drops off rapidly as the distance does up.


I got exactly the same time as you doing 8x500m with 2min rests (Beginner Pete Plan week 23). Why does the regular Pete Plan have 5min rests? Seems a bit long. I'll be going for a 2k TT next week as after that I am travelling for 3 weeks so probably going to lose a lot of speed.

As for the rest of my Beginner Pete Plan for the week, week 23:

Monday: 10,000m - Pete says to go for a PB, so I did and took 25s off my last time to get under 39min for first time: 38:55.4 (1:56.7). Felt good!
Tuesday: 8x500m as above at 1:43.7 r2 s29
Wednesday: thought I'd ditch BPP and try a cheeky 5k PB and knocked 11s off to get 18:48.3 (1:52.8)
Yesterday: rest.
Today: 2x15min 2r first 15min 1:55.8, second was 1:55.6. My target was 30min PB which is 1:55.9 so did ok, but it felt pretty tough. I could not have gone at 1:55.7 for the full 30min today.

Overall a pretty successful week so far.

I'll probably do BPP23.4 and 5 (10k and 4x2k) this weekend, then at least 1 and 2 of w24, and then do a 2k TT on Thursday.
A: 37; H: 184cm; W: 82kg. Would love to put on a few kg muscle.
PBs: 2k 6:58.3; 5k 18:48.3; 30min 7,760m;10k 38:55.4 (all 2017/2018); 6k 23:22.5 (2016/2017).
Doing BPP|Aiming for <7min 2k by end of 2017|Hate the heat
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby G-dub » August 11th, 2017, 11:43 am

Jerek - I think you can bank sub 7. We are all different at different distances, but your splits for this session strongly indicate a 1:43-1:44 split for 2K based on commonly held beliefs about this session and its relationship to 2K. The general rule of thumb is the avg split for this session is 2K + 1, but some assume =2K. Go forth with great confidence and slay the dragon.
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby JerekKruger » August 11th, 2017, 11:44 am

@Derek - thanks. We'll find out if I can pull sub 7 in just over a week as I plan to test my 2k after this cycle of the Pete Plan

DNA_Rower wrote:Why does the regular Pete Plan have 5min rests? Seems a bit long.


It is a little unusual isn't it. I think the idea is that the speed interval sessions are meant to be working on improving your speed and hence allow for generous recovery time to allow you to maintain higher average speed.

I looked up the recovery prescription for the Wolverine Plan for these sessions (the Pete Plan is heavily inspired by the Wolverine Plan, particularly with its interval sessions). In the Wolverine Plan you're told to row the same distance as the preceeding interval during your recovery, but at a specific pace based on your best 2k. In the case where your best 2k in 7:00 the recovery row is meant to be rowed at 2:28/500m, so for 1k intervals that would be just shy of 5 minutes of recovery which is what Pete prescribes. Moreover the Wolverine Plan states that "it would be better to recover a few seconds too many than too few", so even with a faster 2k time 5 minutes wouldn't be too far off the appropriate recovery time. My guess is Pete simply translated the Wolverine Plan's prescription into a simple fixed time recovery for simplicity.
Tom, 32 years old, 6'6", 93kg. PBs: 500m in 1:28.0, 2000m in 6:53.3, 5000m in 18:58.2, 6000m in 22:40.1.
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby hjs » August 11th, 2017, 12:05 pm

jans wrote:
hjs wrote:Re pace, bit depending on age/height, but still its slow :lol: if you are very untrained this will rapidly get better.


Well, 30 and 1m78 or 5' 48". Not a real sportsman, but I play a bit of soccer and I ran about 2x a week (10K). Still hope it had to do with finding the right sitting position, grip, etc. We'll see for the next sessions :mrgreen:



Thanks!


Was kidding a bit, get your technique sorted and start training, you should get faster rapidly. Age is perfect, height ok ish, but enough to do a lot better. No matter what technique, you have a lot to gain fitnesswise.
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby jans » August 11th, 2017, 4:59 pm

JerekKruger wrote:
derico wrote:@jans - some of the guys on here are signed up to BPP (Beginner's Pete Plan). This might be better suited to your needs as it is progressive over 24 weeks from a reasonable start point and as it is more prescriptive removes decisions about which workouts to do when!

Based on the workouts Jans has posted so far (5k, 6x500m, 5k), I think this is the program he is following.

Yep, Beginner's Pete Plan! My bad for not mentioning more clearly.

hjs wrote:Age is perfect, height ok ish, but enough to do a lot better. No matter what technique, you have a lot to gain fitnesswise.

Wow, that's being brutally honest :shock: Thank you for that :wink: Should throw that in a motivational poster :lol:
Jan - age 30 ht 1m78/5'48" wt 80 kg/176 lb
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby hjs » August 11th, 2017, 5:10 pm

jans wrote:
hjs wrote:Age is perfect, height ok ish, but enough to do a lot better. No matter what technique, you have a lot to gain fitnesswise.

Wow, that's being brutally honest :shock: Thank you for that :wink: Should throw that in a motivational poster :lol:


Yes its rare to just say what it is. Which is very sad, I don,t want to put you down in any way, don,t think that. I just comment on the raw numbers.
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby barrec » August 11th, 2017, 6:52 pm

@Jerek and @Derek - thanks both! I think sub 7' is definitely attainable - especially for you, @JerekKruger!

@Jans - there are 3 different regimens on Pete's site - no worries about not distinguishing :wink:. I completed the BPP from January-June of this year and loved it. I think you'll like it, too.
--

Question for the group: what do you during your rest period between interval reps? I'd been curious for some time and the talk about the prescribed rest time piqued my interest further.

Here's what I do: I slide and catch my breath for a minute, walk around to stay limber, do some light stretching and suck down some water. I don't paddle or row at all so my starts are always on a stopped flywheel.
Irony is the strongest force in the universe
--

33 years, 6'0", 235lbs
2K: 7:18.5 (1:49.6)
6k: 22:31.6 (1.52.6)
10k: 39:29.7 (1:58.4)
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby JerekKruger » August 11th, 2017, 7:39 pm

@barrec - for the first 20s I just catch my breath, sip a little water and wipe sweat away. Then I'll immediately go into some very light rowing (I'd guess 2:15-2:30, but the monitor doesn't display recovery splits) until 1:30-2 minutes before the next interval starts. During this light rowing I really focus on getting my breathing back under control and taking deep breaths. For the last part of the recovery I'll often get up from the machine and walk around a little or stretch if I feel it'll help, as well as sip some more water and wipe some more sweat away. I like to be back on my seat with 30s to go, straps on at 10s, handle held at about 3s and I start my first stroke with about 0.5s to go (I wait a moment after 1s appears then pull basically).

In my first round of the Pete Plan I didn't do any active recovery, but I think it actually makes me go faster when I do. If I don't do anything at all my body switches into "off" mode, and it's that bit harder to get going again in the next interval. Doing some light rowing helps keep it from doing so, and probably also helps encourage blood flow to the rowing muscles to promote recovery.
Tom, 32 years old, 6'6", 93kg. PBs: 500m in 1:28.0, 2000m in 6:53.3, 5000m in 18:58.2, 6000m in 22:40.1.
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby jans » August 12th, 2017, 5:52 am

@hjs: no worries, I'm here to learn, so please do :wink:

barrec wrote:Question for the group: what do you during your rest period between interval reps?


For what it's worth after 4 sessions: getting breathing under control, drink water, wipe sweat, make mental evaluation of what went good or wrong (technique), looking and evaluating pace and swearing I'm too slow :lol: , make list of things to pay attention to (technique) in next interval, pep myself up (20 sec before), straps and handle (10 sec before) and GO!

JerekKruger wrote:In my first round of the Pete Plan I didn't do any active recovery, but I think it actually makes me go faster when I do. If I don't do anything at all my body switches into "off" mode, and it's that bit harder to get going again in the next interval. Doing some light rowing helps keep it from doing so, and probably also helps encourage blood flow to the rowing muscles to promote recovery.


I'll try this next time. Makes sense.
Jan - age 30 ht 1m78/5'48" wt 80 kg/176 lb
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby JerekKruger » August 12th, 2017, 7:06 am

Pete Plan 3.2: 45mins strapless
9:00 2140m, 2:06.1 at 18SPM, HR 157
18:00 2109m, 2:08.0 at 18SPM, HR 159
27:00 2121m, 2:07.2 at 18SPM, HR 164
36:00 2099m, 2:08.6 at 18SPM, HR 159
45:00 2135m, 2:06.4 at 18SPM, HR 167
Total: 10603m, 2:07.3 at 18SPM, average heart rate 161

I decided shortly into this row to try to row it at 18SPM. No real reason other than practice I guess.
Tom, 32 years old, 6'6", 93kg. PBs: 500m in 1:28.0, 2000m in 6:53.3, 5000m in 18:58.2, 6000m in 22:40.1.
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby jans » August 12th, 2017, 10:22 am

Beginners Pete Plan: 1.4

"[20min] – First week and you’re already thinking about doing extra sessions? Make sure you’re not over-doing it early on, rest is a very important part of any training plan. Whether your 5000m sessions have been taking you more or less than 20mins, aim to row this session at a slower pace, concentrating on making each stroke more efficient than the last."

Time Meters Pace Watts S/M HR
20:00.0 4,527m 2:12.5 150 19 170
4:00.0 962m 2:04.7 180 19 161
8:00.0 904m 2:12.7 150 18 167
12:00.0 887m 2:15.2 141 18 171
16:00.0 867m 2:18.4 132 19 171
20:00.0 908m 2:12.1 152 22 183

So ofcourse I wanted to go faster than previous pace on 5k (which was 2:14.7), but I focused on getting higher Watts (set pace boat on 145 W, which was 2 more than on latest 5k).

Blisters didn't bother me as much as yesterday. Found these on Amazone: https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/Weight-Lifting-Gloves/Bear-Grip-LEATHER-Gym-Grips-FREE-DELIVERY/B00HB8A0SG/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?_encoding=UTF8&dpID=5109psBa3tL&dpPl=1&keywords=bear%20grips%20leather&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_FMwebp_QL65&qid=1502456476&ref=plSrch&ref_=mp_s_a_1_1&sr=8-1#Ask

Still wasn't able to put enough power via my feet as I want to. Will try one footlevel higher. Legs are hurting a bit more, so must be putting more power in them, which is good I think.

Conclusions:
1) Needed some rest points in between which seriously dropped my average Watts, so yes, my fitness level is beyond zero I guess... :mrgreen: Tomorrow = rest day!
2) Did manage to get more average Watts, but still the drop after about 10 min was way to big
3) So 180 Watts = 2:04.7 ... waw, it will take some time to hold that (with some higher s/m) for 5k to get below 2:00.0 average pace :shock:
Jan - age 30 ht 1m78/5'48" wt 80 kg/176 lb
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby JerekKruger » August 13th, 2017, 8:41 am

@Jans - Good on you for doing one of the extra sessions. Whilst I agree with Pete's pacing guidelines by and large, given how new you are to rowing you'll likely make big improvements in your speed fairly rapidly. As such don't worry overly if you go faster than he says on a piece like this.

What I will say is that you'll find that trying to keep your speed even throughout on longer rows like this will make them easier, and thus make you go faster. For example your average split for this 20min row was 2:12.5, but your first 4mins were at 2:04.7 - if you tried rowing consistently at, say, 2:10 I suspect you'd manage and it would feel easier (there's a physics reason for this if you're interested).

As for those gloves, personally I'd just wait for your hands to adapt whilst taking good care of them. When I started rowing again about eight or nine weeks ago I also developed blisters but after a week or so I stopped getting new ones, and after perhaps three or four weeks they'd mostly dried out and been replaced by calluses. The problem with gloves is that they make the handle of the erg thicker, which means your grip has to work harder to grip it, which means your forearms will work harder during rowing.

Pete Plan 2.3: Waterfall
3000m 11:05.7 (1:50.9 average) at 26SPM, HR 184
2500m 9:14.1 (1:50.8 average) at 26SPM, HR 188
2000m 7:21.9 (1:50.4 average) at 26SPM, HR 189
Average: 1:50.7 at 26SPM
Rest: 1537m

I am very pleased with this session. My goal was to go sub 1:52, so in classic me fashion I promptly went faster than I should have in the first interval. Second interval was tough but manageable but with about 800m left to go on the 2k I hit a wall: my splits jumped up to 1:56 and my mind said "give up". I basically told myself that if I couldn't finish this at 1:52 then I wouldn't have it in me to do a hard 2k trial, so I knuckled down and managed to get through the rest of the piece below 1:52 with a pretty fast final 300m. Whilst I know that this probably indicates that I could have gone faster throughout, I am pleased simply because my last few endurance interval sessions have seen me go slow on the final interval as a result of mentally giving up. This is the first time I've really pushed through that barrier and carried on.

Other than that, this was a fairly big improvement on my other endurance interval sessions, clocking in at 1.1s and 1.4s faster splits than my 5x1500 and 4x2000 respectively. I'd like to think this means I have a sub 1:52 5k in me, though we won't know till I try.

EDIT: oh yeah, according to Polar Beats I also hit a 190 heart rate, which is the highest I've seen during erging (at my current age).
Tom, 32 years old, 6'6", 93kg. PBs: 500m in 1:28.0, 2000m in 6:53.3, 5000m in 18:58.2, 6000m in 22:40.1.
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby jans » August 13th, 2017, 2:53 pm

@JerekKruger, thank you for that input! So valuable for a newby like myself! And good for you on that sub 1:52 :wink:
Jan - age 30 ht 1m78/5'48" wt 80 kg/176 lb
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Re: Pete Plan 2017

Postby barrec » August 13th, 2017, 7:38 pm

@Jerek - kudos on finishing the Waterfall strong! That is some great mental toughness you have there which should prove very valuable in you 2k TT (and any other piece, for that matter).

@Jans - keep it up! Good on you to do the extra session.

PP 3.1.5 - Hard 5k - Goal: ~1:53.3
Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
18:48.9 5,000m 1:52.8 243 1136 28
5:41.8 1,500m 1:53.9 237 1113 28
5:38.9 3,000m 1:52.9 243 1134 28
5:38.7 4,500m 1:52.9 243 1136 28
1:49.5 5,000m 1:49.5 267 1216 29

My goal/strategy was to row the first 1500m @1:54.0, then the next two 1500m splits at 1:53.0, and then sprint the final 500m. And I did it! My goal is to try a 5k TT @1:52.0 in a few weeks and this made me feel like I can do it. I'll take a look at my endurance intervals over the next two weeks as well to see if I can adjust those goals to match a 1:52.0 5k PB.
Irony is the strongest force in the universe
--

33 years, 6'0", 235lbs
2K: 7:18.5 (1:49.6)
6k: 22:31.6 (1.52.6)
10k: 39:29.7 (1:58.4)
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