Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.

Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby bob01 » July 6th, 2018, 10:07 am

As some who is a professional swim coach. I take an interest in all things coaching. I have recently returned to erging, saw this book and thought it would be interesting.

A tad disappointed.

1st chapter stated .. It is a polarised. Program (which was expected) where 80% is low intensity approx 70% of max heart rate.

On its overview of intensity zones that equates to U3 (60 to 75% of max hr)

Yet in its example of its training week of 22.75 hrs only 45mins is u3 and that's cycling!

Can anyone provide some clarity... I accept that it may be an atypical week... But!
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby jamesg » July 10th, 2018, 3:40 pm

Rowing coaches want boatspeed, and this comes from technique, efficiency and crew synchronisation. Since these aspects need large distances that can only be done at low ratings, there is also a large training effect in the UT bands; the boats' gearing is set to keep us in that band at 18-24, so that when racing at 30-40, we move up to AT, but with the same stroke.

On the erg we see our power output in Watts, so there's no need to use HR as a proxy for data that we already have. The ratings are as in rowing, since the action is similar.

You can see examples of how indoor rowing training on the erg is done, in the Wolverine Plan and Interactve plans; both relate to rowing afloat, concentrating on stroke quality, tho' the Interactives are masked as HR band schemes.
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby Remo » July 11th, 2018, 1:33 am

Sorry to hear that. I remember reading an interview a couple of months ago with the lead author of your book: "Advanced Rowing: International perspectives on high performance rowing." It sounded interesting at the time.

Based on your comment, I perused what I could of the book using Amazon's "look inside" feature, is that there are multiple authors (13 by my count) and theses authors give you multiple "perspectives on high performance rowing." From what I could discern from the "look inside" feature, the book skews towards perspective, and not towards nuts and bolts coaching and workouts.

Being a rowing geek, I might find parts of the book interesting, but I doubt that it would have any redeeming value to you.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Rule of thumb:

1-2 hard interval sessions per week, and at least one of which is longish intervals of 4 to 8 minutes work

Everything else long slow distance at less than 75% max hr. Some elite athletes substitute some cycling for rowing in that they cycling is a little less stressful than rowing in that the rowing loads are heavier because of the lower revolutions/minute ... strokes/minute.
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby bob01 » July 11th, 2018, 12:32 pm

Thanks I did explain that I am a professional swim coach and as such find training in all sports of interested.... And always look to see if any additional info could transfer to my coaching and my personal training. Cycling and erging.

As the reply above eloquently puts it and to paraphrase why use heart rate as a proxy .... When one has the 'real' thing? :D
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby jackarabit » July 11th, 2018, 1:04 pm

Remo writes:

1-2 hard interval sessions per week, and at least one of which is longish intervals of 4 to 8 minutes work

Everything else long slow distance at less than 75% max hr.


Would it be more accurate to say 75% of heart rate reserve plus resting rate? 75% of my personal HRMax of 172 is 129bpm. That is sub-UT2 heart rate In my case(UT3 or whatever)! For me, 75% of HRR (118) + RHR (54) is 142.5bpm. At 129bpm, I’m barely warmed up!
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby bob01 » July 12th, 2018, 3:44 am

I appreciate one does not often have access to a power meter OTW. And therefore hr is a method for assessing effort- would PE be better?
On the erg power or its derivatives are available so why would anyone use hr as its proxy ??
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby JerekKruger » July 12th, 2018, 4:24 am

bob01 wrote:On the erg power or its derivatives are available so why would anyone use hr as its proxy ??


Because heart rate takes into account the current state of your body, so if you're under recovered or falling ill it'll be higher for a given power and vice versa if you happen to be particularly fresh on a given day.

Personally I think it's helpful to use both: power gives you your target split, which you then adjust based on how your heart rate is behaving.
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby jackarabit » July 12th, 2018, 8:19 am

The gamer has it! Belt and suspenders. :lol:
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby Dangerscouse » July 12th, 2018, 8:27 am

jackarabit wrote:The gamer has it! Belt and suspenders. :lol:


Hahaha, seconded
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby Remo » July 12th, 2018, 4:20 pm

JerekKruger wrote:
bob01 wrote:On the erg power or its derivatives are available so why would anyone use hr as its proxy ??


Because heart rate takes into account the current state of your body, so if you're under recovered or falling ill it'll be higher for a given power and vice versa if you happen to be particularly fresh on a given day.

Personally I think it's helpful to use both: power gives you your target split, which you then adjust based on how your heart rate is behaving.


I concur with JK. Currently I am recovering from bronchitis (pneumonia?) which after two doctors visits was eventually cured with antibiotic. I lost 15 lbs over 3 weeks and I still have a cough. I am not yet up to snuff. I am currently relying on my HR instead of power/velocity to gauge most of my workouts. When I am healthy, I tend to rely on HR as a backup to power/velocity particularly with all-out pieces where my HR approaches my MaxHR.

As an aside, OTW in addition to HR, you can use GPS a proxy for power. I know the coach of the 2018 NCAA Champion University of California Women's Crew team and they were using GPS this year to measure boat velocity

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Per Jack, I should have narrowed my response. I too use Heart Rate Reserve. Here is a good site for figuring that out heart rate bands based on Heart Rate Reserve: http://www.freespiritsrowing.com/forum/app.php/page/heart-rate-bands-calculator. A good place to do your long slow distance work is roughly between UT2 and UT1 which is below your Aerobic threshold (the upper limit of UT1 should be at your Aerobic Threshold) but still in the range where you will be building your aerobic endurance.

UT3 is below UT2 and is sometimes referred to as "active recovery" or "fuel utilization training". The UK Rio Olympic team has a some stuff on it here: http://www.worldrowing.com/mm/Document/General/General/12/66/24/JurgenGrobler2017RCA_Neutral.pdf
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby bob01 » July 14th, 2018, 9:50 am

There seems to be (a common) confusion. Between aerobic and aerobic threshold.

Still can not why in most circumstances that the proxy for power.... Heart rate.. Is preferred over the real thing power.

Why use some arbitrary... Almost random % of HR or even HRR??
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Re: Advanced Rowing. Book isbn 978 -1-4729-1233-6

Postby JerekKruger » July 14th, 2018, 1:13 pm

bob01 wrote:There seems to be (a common) confusion. Between aerobic and aerobic threshold.


By who?

Still can not why in most circumstances that the proxy for power.... Heart rate.. Is preferred over the real thing power.


I'm not sure why you assume power is the superior measure. What you're trying to do is do a certain amount of work at a given stress level. What that stress level is obviously varies from person to person, but it also varies for a given person on a day to day basis due to a variety of factors. Heart rate is a measure of how hard your body is stressed by a given workload and so using it to control your intensity seems, to me at least, more sensible than power. Of course you'll end up using both because power gives you a good idea of where you should be working, but then (as I explained above) heart rate allows you to tweak it based on your current condition.

Also worth noting is that power doesn't tell the whole story in rowing. 200W at rate 20 is not at all the same as 200W at rate 24: the former is tough aerobic work for me whereas the latter is pretty easy. This difference is seen in heart rate, since my heart rate will be much higher for the low rated piece than for the higher rated piece. Again why I think heart rate is a useful tool.

As a side note, top level rowers aren't using heart rate charts like the one Remo linked. They'll have their own heart rate zones set using lactate testing and these can vary a lot from the Free Spirits chart. However short of lactate testing gear the chart offers the simplest option for setting your own zones, although one I prefer is doing a 30 minute time trial and taking my average heart rate for the final 20 minutes to be my lactate threshold.
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