I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.

Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby Anth_F » October 11th, 2017, 1:44 pm

Joefish wrote:
On 10/9/17 I did a timed 2X at 9:32 at the end of a 45 minutes workout. I only shaved off 3 seconds in 2 months of working out! This seems pathetic to me but maybe that's normal?

Frankly, I still feel like I need 3-4 days to recover after a 45 minutes erg workout. It is kicking my butt!


Bad idea doing a 2k test after 45 mins workout... not suprised you only shaved a bit off the last one. And no wonder you need 3-4 days to recover if your training like that.

More volume is needed for certain than x2 sessions per week. Try for 4-5 then i can guarantee you will start to see significant improvements in your results. And of course do a 2k fresh, not after a workout for example.

My 2k time was about that in the early stages, after maybe just 2 months of erging. And i was rowing most days too, but then eventually my times started to improve dramatically, and that was just in general. It's all about volume, start slacking there and it doesn't take long for the erg to let you know about it :wink:

Good luck.
"I don't have time" is the grown up version of "my dog ate my homework"

40yo male 5'10 76kg (Rowing since june 9th 2016) PB's 5k 19:22

My goals are simply to keep fit/get fitter and continue to enjoy rowing on the C2 :)
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby ItalianRower » October 12th, 2017, 4:24 pm

Honestly with your size is for sure a technical problem, if you Can find someone more experienced to coach you, or at least post some videos here and I m sure we will give you good advice!
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby Carl Watts » October 13th, 2017, 12:49 am

As above you get dramatic gains in 3 to 6 months of the right training but you need to be doing 35 to 50Km a week.
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby strider » October 13th, 2017, 5:16 am

"Frankly, I still feel like I need 3-4 days to recover after a 45 minutes erg workout"


The huge 3-4 day recovery required tells me that you pushed well past a healthy exercise duration, and into fatigue in your 45 minute workout. It also explains your lack of "improvement" in a 2K at the end of a workout.

Use a heart rate monitor for smartest, safest training. I did, and still do, since becoming a bypass recipient 12 years ago.

Watching my heart rate ALWAYS, during exercise post bypass surgery, I discovered a rising heart rate after a long stable period of aerobic work was an indicator of coming fatigue. And like yours, it took a couple days to get past. I used this indicator to back off in that workout, or start an active cooldown. If you get the right brand of heart rate monitor, it will give you Training Effect. The higher the value, the tougher the workout, but also, the longer the recovery time.

Result ? No fatigue. And, and over time, I allowed the rising heart rate to continue for a few minutes before cooling down, sometimes just backing off for a few minutes, then pushed on again. This helped increase endurance, and to raise my max heart rate.

Also, be sure to warm-up gradually before a heavy workout, or 2K piece.
The warm-up: causes partial shutdown of internal organs and shunts blood from them to skeletal muscles, and improves blood flow to the heart itself. I was told this by two doctors, who both know both the heart and exercise. One is a champion Master's rower.

Skip a proper warm-up, and you make sure you will NOT have a true personal best. Plus, working more on adrenaline, than good sense, one raises their blood pressure excessively, which is NOT a healthy thing to do.

If you still intend to do a hard 2K at the end of a workout, at least give yourself 3-4 minutes of easy rowing first. You might try flirting with your anaerobic pain, stay just outside it. I found that if I backed off a touch, the work felt easier, and the split time went down a little, and I did not tire as quickly. 2K's are also about pacing, not just all out effort.
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby Nguyen » October 13th, 2017, 10:54 am

I'm also impressed by people in this forum.
I have a terrible performance :oops:
Could you estimate how many sessions needed to improve 5 seconds in 2K? Of course, it depends on many factors (age, effort, ...), so, just an estimation.
Age:32 Weight: 60kg Height:163cm Started rowing: 9/2017
500m 2:05 2K 8:48 5K 23:28
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby gooseflight » October 13th, 2017, 11:56 am

Nguyen wrote:I'm also impressed by people in this forum.
I have a terrible performance :oops:
Could you estimate how many sessions needed to improve 5 seconds in 2K? Of course, it depends on many factors (age, effort, ...), so, just an estimation.

Impossible to answer. It takes longer as you get faster because the watt difference/5 secs is greater.

Looking at 500m splits:
2:00 > 1:55 is around 30 watts.
1:45 > 1:40 is nearer 50 watts.

Gains are easier when you're starting out so make the most of it!
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M55 | 185cm | 90kg | Journeyman Erger
PBs (2004): 6:38 (2K) | 5:22.9 (mile) | 17:39.6 (5K) | 8323 (30 mins) | 36:52 (10K) | 1:22:03 (HM '05)
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby AndyG » October 14th, 2017, 3:48 am

Nguyen wrote:I'm also impressed by people in this forum.
I have a terrible performance :oops:
Could you estimate how many sessions needed to improve 5 seconds in 2K? Of course, it depends on many factors (age, effort, ...), so, just an estimation.


5 seconds total or 5 seconds per 500m? I'd imagine at the moment if you pushed to go harder on each 2000m pacing yourself slightly quicker you should improve by the amount session to session maybe. So at the moment your averaging 2:13 per 500m, row at 2:12 for the whole distance, don't allow yourself to slow below this average and try to row slightly quicker than this average and you will break your record while keeping a good pace.

Then row some rows of 10,000m in between 2:38-2:45 per 500m pace, don't go above 2:38 throughout the row. This will increase your aerobic capacity, the more of them you do the better your stamina will be. So when you row another 2k it will be easier to go faster.
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby jackarabit » October 14th, 2017, 2:34 pm

Good news, Nguyen!

1) Your performance is not "terrible." Pound for pound and inch for inch, it is respectable. Rest assured that 6:55 2k is not all that great for a guy measuring out at 195cm and 220lbs.

2) You're working the shallow slope of Roy Walters' power requirement for pace curve so no bad news for you there that isn't worse news for those capable of higher power outputs in the 200-300watt range.

3) Andy's advice is solid. 1.25" per split is certainly more attainable than 5" per split. And volume rowing @ 2k+25 to 35" in your case will build the well-aspirated engine that makes for endurance at race pace.
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby Nguyen » October 16th, 2017, 2:51 am

Thank you all for encouragement.
I'll try to reduce time per 500m and add long distance race in training as you recommanded.
Age:32 Weight: 60kg Height:163cm Started rowing: 9/2017
500m 2:05 2K 8:48 5K 23:28
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby bisqeet » October 16th, 2017, 5:40 am

jackarabit wrote:...

....Rest assured that 6:55 2k is not all that great for a guy measuring out at 195cm and 220lbs.

....


gets harder with each extra candle to keep "sub7" though... (not that i plan to do another before the big 50 next year).
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby lancecampeau » October 18th, 2017, 1:53 pm

Started rowing in January of 2017. My first timed 2k was a 9:32. After about 2 solid months of training 3 or 4 times per week (rowing, weights, general cardio) I managed to drop that time to 7:20... After another 2 months it went to a 7:06. The weights helped but more importantly, I did a lot of 5k to 10k pieces. This work helped build aerobic capacity that is needed to have success at the 2k. I also reviewed that video Concept2 has on rowing technique several times during those months to refresh my mind on how to row more efficiently. That really was helpful.

Bottom line... You have to build up an aerobic base in incremental steps.
43y 183cm 105kg
100m/16.1 | 346m/1min | 500m/1:30.0 | 1K/3:15.5 | 1,188m/4:00.0 | 2K/7:06.5 | 5K/18:45.7 | 6K/22:37.8 | 7,731m/30:00.0 | 10K/39:39.6 | 14,807m/60min | HM/1:25:29.6 | FM/3:06:39.8
goals - Sub7, 15k/60min, 360m/1 min, 8k/30min
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Re: I really don't know how you guys do it. Amazing

Postby Neorticros » October 20th, 2017, 7:46 am

Yeah it's amazing, but you have to realize you just can't compare to others if you dont want to lose motivation. This is a fight against yourself.

I wouldn't care that much about times, worry about technique (yours looked very good) and about losing 1lb/week. You started June 1st, so after 20 weeks.. Did you lose 20 lb? That is the key. If you didn't, worry about changing that.

I told you on that other topic you opened and some people told you too, probably you should row more often and less time each day. Try rowing 20 mins a day everyday. If you can row 45 mins, 20 mins should be easy. When you find that those 20 mins are easy to do everyday, now and then try to speed up for the last 5 mins of those 20 mins so you just end up as tired as you can. So instead of doing Pete Plan or any slightly complex workout, just stay on the rowing machine 20 mins a day and make sure you end up tired by increasing your pace for the last part.

Rowing is like swimming. If I go swimming I'd end up out of breath after crossing the pool just once. However there are lots of old retired people that swim every day in local swiming pools and are able to go forth and back time after time for over an hour. Their body is used to it, they know how to breath, they know what pace to follow, have a good technique etc etc. You could be x3 stronger than them, but if you consume x10 times the energy they consume in order to swim, they are going to beat you time after time :)

Times will just come. Be constant and ofc dont try to set records after a 45 min row :)
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