Performance Diet Types and Terminology

General discussions about getting and staying fit that don't relate directly to your indoor rower

Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby left coaster » October 17th, 2016, 11:28 pm

Yes, Mike, through a standard DNA test such as 23andme or through a physician if one wanted to better understand APOE status and risk for Alzheimer's disease. Those with an APOE 4 allele are at much greater risk, which is were most of the interest in APOE status springs from. The less than 1% of us who are 2/2 have the lowest dementia risk but evidence is emerging that we may be more vulnerable to metabolic disorders and diabetes.

Finding 2/2 participants is really difficult and there are almost no studies available with an adequate sample size to have predictive power for APOE 2 folks... you need to test over 1000 people to get 100 2/2's -- very expensive! We still need to extrapolate from genetic knock-in animal studies, mostly mouse. Thankfully findings in mice don't immediately generalize to humans as they've found a bunch of issues in mice that have the 2 allele, if they translated directly to people I'd be f***ed.

As a disclaimer, I don't endorse the diet recommendations above, but I do find them interesting. I've known for a very long time that I respond poorly to simple carbs, since my teens actually, and I've come to believe this is influenced by my apoe status. I really like fatty fish and dense, slow release, energy sources -- the older I get the more I lean this way.
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Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby mdpfirrman » October 18th, 2016, 9:54 am

Thanks Lefty. Though the 23andme doesn't specifically state which you are, you can pretty much gather which you are from their health summaries. Interesting stuff. My wife has ongoing health issues (fibromyalgia) do to genetics (from her health report I think we are pretty close to what this recommends for her - limit saturated fat - we don't do dairy at all or eggs but do a lot of nuts and olive oils which are all unsaturated). The take I got from this is she should do less cardio time wise but more HIIT work (which I've encouraged her to do anyway).

This just confirms a lot of what I thought about her diet / workouts. Cool link.
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Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby left coaster » October 18th, 2016, 10:20 am

I'm in Canada and here 23andme is allowed to share APOE status results. It comes with a little button you need to click which acknowledges something about sensitive medical information etc., once you know you can't unknown and not everyone is well equipped to handle the information. I'm also still on their old site, the one with all the health reports that was developed before the FDA pulled their leash.
100m: 15.5, 1Min: 353, 500m: 1:29, 5K: 19:41.2, 10K: 40:46

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Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby left coaster » September 8th, 2017, 5:18 pm

Interesting finding in mice...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 145551.htm

Defo not all meat like our doc Baker (or the antithesis of a baker I would think), but strongly in favor of ketosis.
100m: 15.5, 1Min: 353, 500m: 1:29, 5K: 19:41.2, 10K: 40:46

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Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby strider » October 11th, 2017, 4:36 pm

Skipping the 10 pages, of posts.
A recent exercise physiology text book on Exercise, Nutrition and Performance stated that a diet study for endurance sports from 1968 had never been refuted.

The results were easy to read. For the best endurance, a diet with 80% complex carbs, and balanced fat and protein was ideal, giving over DOUBLE the endurance of a balanced diet, or a diet with 50% fat.

The more fat in the diet, the lower the endurance. The high carb diet in comparison, was over triple the endurance. This is a regular diet, not a short term alteration. Short term boosts of a few percent are nice. But tripling your endurance is a lot better.
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Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby left coaster » October 13th, 2017, 12:58 pm

Hi Strider,
Welcome to the discussion!

Are you able to provide a reference to the study you are quoting? Many of us are experienced researchers -- I'd be keen to review the findings you reference.

One thing to keep in mind is that I, and others like Shawn who may still lurk here occasionally, are interested in performance diets that also support healthy aging. Dr. Shawn Baker's strategy has been to adopt an all meat diet. He must be close to a year with it if still going.

I've found some evidence indicating that the glucose metabolism of our body and brain deteriorates with age. Think age related type 2 diabetes. The interesting thing about a high fat, low carb, diet is that in many ways is circumvents the glucose metabolism system in older adults, relying rather on ketosis for energy needs.
100m: 15.5, 1Min: 353, 500m: 1:29, 5K: 19:41.2, 10K: 40:46

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Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby strider » October 27th, 2017, 6:05 pm

Here is a reference to it from 1987: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3297721 , which has links to similar articles.

Here is a link to the reference: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5584523 ,
and link to the full article is on that prior URL page, and here: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1 ... 292.f02t03

I read the information in Chapter 1, pages 15-18 of my McArdle, Katch, and Katch text.

A very high protein diet is supposed to be very hard on the kidneys.
And as I understand it, we do like dogs and cats, excreting large amount of unused protein, that we paid good money for.
Brown rice is very healthy, and far cheaper than most cuts of meat.
Balance of energy in and out keeps off weight gain.
Excess aerobic work also limits muscle growth, or long distance runners would be huge, yes ?
For some excess calories just leads to high body heat as the body tries to rid itself of the calories without storing them.
And carbs require fewer calories to use and digest than fats or proteins.
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Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby strider » October 27th, 2017, 6:12 pm

In terms of healthy aging, lower calories in general is better.

But highly healthy foods are the "neutriceuticals".

Pomegranate and green tea stand out.
High anti-oxidants foods critically important, as are low fat foods. The combination protects arteries.
I had bypass surgery in 2006, and about 3 dozen inoperable blockages. Doc ave me about three years to live.
I dug into research.

An article in US Rowing about 1977, indicated potassium critical to exercise in heat.
Dilute high potassium juices were the best source(water 4 to one juice). Dilute keeps the sugar content down, eliminates need to pee off excess sugar.
Fascinating article, I still recall most critical details of it. But have seen almost nothing since.
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Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby strider » October 27th, 2017, 6:45 pm

To mdpfirrman , nuts and olive oil fats are NOT all unsaturated. There is a blend of fats in all of them.

Nut oil blends are all over the map. I researched them years ago and found a single nutrients in nuts page that was very thorough.
They have saturated, mono-unsaturated and polyunsaturated, fats, maybe others. I came across an article stating a 2:1 ratio of the two, mono and poly was healthiest.
Walnuts were heavily imbalanced one way. Almonds the other. Pistachios and peanuts were best balanced, but pistachios the least overall quantity of fat.
Pistachios are also high in thiamine, protective of arteries (do you know what EPCs are ?)

My remaining blockages are so sensitive (I have dozens), a small amount of fat in a single meal can give me hours of chest pain. With a careful diet, it is very rare.
Most recently, and this was some years ago, one quarter of one avocado, and fours hours of strong but not intense chest pain. I went to the hospital.

Lower oxidized LDL is the name of the game. That requires low fat intake, high anti-oxidant intake, and periodic HIIT intervals, ideal from a rowing machine.

I got into this subject to save my own life, literally, starting in 2006. I have angiogram photos that make nurses weep, tell me I am blessed to be alive.

Pomegranates help stimulate paraoxonase production, needed to help reduce blockages, raise HDL, and boost HDL functionality.
Many people do not know that HDL can be dysfunctional, when it does almost no good. Sort of a ghost molecule. There, but ... not.

I think fibromyalgia may be a capillary level form of atheroslcerosis. So it might benefit from the same diet I adhere to.
Try a tea made from a few minutes steeping oregano for bouts of fibromyalgia. Very high in antioxidants.
It is a solution I use for chest pain, since short cracking my chest again, no more stents are possible for me, zigzagging in reverse up my artery trees after descending my bypass grafts is not possible. The equipment can not bend like that.
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Re: Performance Diet Types and Terminology

Postby jbhop5857 » November 16th, 2017, 5:06 pm

Good Day,
This is all very interesting. I have been on a LCHF diet for a few months now. I do this out of how it makes me feel, not for weight loss. (although that side effect will be ok with me). I struggle daily on the fat intake part and when I don't eat enough fat, my performance drops significantly. On a normal day, I am below 20g Carbs and around 200g protein, with fat being all over the place.

You have all pointed to a lot of research papers that I will surely read as time goes on, but I wanted to see if there was anyone else out there currently doing a Keto type diet and what there bodies reactions to different pieces at different paces are. I honestly find the longer rows easier than the sprints when fueled this way. I am also in a ramping up training phase and my 2k time below is not by PB, I just haven't tested in a while.

Thanks all,

David
Age: 38
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235lbs.
2k: 7:10 - 2017
5K: 19:12.8 - 2015
6K: 23:28 - 2015
10K: 39:49 - 2017
HM: 1:29:24 - 2017
30 Min: 7740 - 2015
60 Min: 15033 - 2015
FM: 3:10:22 - 2017
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