What the point to rank not verified results for challenges?

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What the point to rank not verified results for challenges?

Postby Den_Thorn » February 9th, 2017, 3:11 pm

Hi folks,

I like idea of individual challenges.
But why it is ok to use both unverified and verified results on Boards Of Honor etc? Why not the only verified can be accounted?

Fresh example - Valentine Challenge 2017 started today.
Checked early morning - there were everything legit, eg 55 ppl with 35km as a longes distance. Now tonight it became look like a circus without means. Longest distance currently is 3000km (can you calculate the pace chap had to row if really would do 3000km in 10-15 hours? :) hillarious! ). And I believe we'll get more such moonrakers very soon.

Why such definitely disturbing results can't be simple rejected for challenges to avoid confusion of the ppl who really row and wanna be honest?
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Re: What the point to rank not verified results for challeng

Postby Citroen » February 9th, 2017, 5:00 pm

Write an email to rowing@concept2.com and ask them to explain the anomalies and how they're allowed to be entered on their system.
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Re: What the point to rank not verified results for challeng

Postby Carl Watts » February 9th, 2017, 7:52 pm

Do a search on the forum, this comes up time and time again but Concept 2 don't want to fix the problem. Until they kill the manual meters entry its always going to be a problem.

I even suggested they have ONE Challenge a year that had verified results ONLY but still no action.

The end result was I quit entering any of the challenges .I suspect many other people feel the same way, they just don't enter either or bother to voice their opinion.

They also need to add an average pace column to bring some perspective to all the meters rowed. Meters without pace information is worthless.

My advice is stick to looking at your own results and set yourself goals and challenges for the season.
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Re: What the point to rank not verified results for challeng

Postby ivan141 » February 13th, 2017, 6:49 am

You have a point about ludicrous results being entered, but there is little to win, so in the end participation is
for your own motivation more than it is about ranking.

I for one was (and sometimes still am) happy with the option to enter meters manually. My former PM2 monitor
did not support verified results, and it get's old really fast to have to take pictures of the monitor.
Now that I have a PM3 my home meters are all verified, but I had to manually enter my new PB's that I set at a
race event last weekend. I would be disappointed if those were not considered valid (although I would respect
a request for some form of verification in case that time is in contention for a challenge or record).
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Re: What the point to rank not verified results for challeng

Postby sander » February 14th, 2017, 5:04 am

ivan141 wrote:You have a point about ludicrous results being entered, but there is little to win, so in the end participation is
for your own motivation more than it is about ranking.

I for one was (and sometimes still am) happy with the option to enter meters manually. My former PM2 monitor
did not support verified results, and it get's old really fast to have to take pictures of the monitor.
Now that I have a PM3 my home meters are all verified, but I had to manually enter my new PB's that I set at a
race event last weekend. I would be disappointed if those were not considered valid (although I would respect
a request for some form of verification in case that time is in contention for a challenge or record).


I agree with this. I like to enter race results, which I can only enter manually. Also, the C2 logbook API (http://log.concept2.com/developers/documentation/ ) allows third party apps to upload results. Before they are allowed to do this, the app's developers have to play in a sandbox C2 logbook for a while and get allowed only when Concept2 approves the application. However, there are no formal restrictions for what are valid results.

The best in my mind would be for Concept2 to do some simple checks to warn users/apps entering clearly invalid results (splits, stroke rates that are physically impossible, distances like 1500km, negative heart rate values, etc) but allowing someone to enter an unverified 5:53 2k time even if nobody has ever seen that person row faster than 7:00.

I believe Apps who get the "verified" tag have to do something more (see the API documentation) and are promoted to "trusted" apps. That is also good.
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Re: What the point to rank not verified results for challeng

Postby Den_Thorn » February 19th, 2017, 11:43 am

ivan141 wrote:I would be disappointed if those were not considered valid (although I would respect
a request for some form of verification in case that time is in contention for a challenge or record).


IMO it can be easily worked around with promotion on request from referees board computer (or somehow else verified and checked by referees before entering).

Otherwise imagine you run a marathon and some ppl just doing shortcuts accomlishin a distance in some of more or less great time. And at the finish line nobody check where certain guy comes from , just logging his results.
Now imagine you are really interesting in ranking you currently have there, but it is really impossible for you to see you real ranking just because you don't know how many ppl were running through full the distance and ´what were their results.

I believe challenges suppose to motivate ppl while in such form that they are currently are they'd rather demotivate - will be you motivated in participating in the marathon event like above?

Even "verified" results currently can be cheat. All I need is just visit as many gyms as I can tonight and steal whole the kms/miles off teh all the concepts I'll find out there. Voila! I did about 600km*number of found rowers*number of visited gyms in just a one day, and all these kms are "verified".
:cry:
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