The World Games

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The World Games

Postby Droode » March 1st, 2017, 7:38 am

I am looking forward to the inclusion of indoor rowing at the World Games blood and urine drug testing at anytime during the games, unlike the crash b's that have no testing of any kind. It should be interesting to see the international times under a tested racing system.
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Re: The World Games

Postby remisture » March 1st, 2017, 9:25 am

Do you think erging has a doping problem?
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Re: The World Games

Postby Droode » March 1st, 2017, 11:12 am

No, however I do believe when it comes to sports and any form of recognition in that sport people are capable of anything. There are definitely people who are so competitive that regardless of what there sport rewards them a trophy, money, being number one, etc. they want to win. The fact that the biggest indoor rowing event in the world the CRASH B's tests no one opens the door for people who are willing to use PED's to do so with no repercussions. What if the top three and one random person in each category were tested would the outcomes be different maybe/maybe not.
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Re: The World Games

Postby jackarabit » March 1st, 2017, 11:50 am

The incentive of material reward and prestige for successful individual IR competitors or successful national teams is imo weak or missing from WIRC but the delivery systems of chem PE to the lucrative sports are no doubt looking for opportunities to expand operations. Why speculate about Boston when Wroclaw will have testing?
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Re: The World Games

Postby Droode » March 1st, 2017, 1:20 pm

jackarabit wrote:The incentive of material reward and prestige for successful individual IR competitors or successful national teams is imo weak or missing from WIRC but the delivery systems of chem PE to the lucrative sports are no doubt looking for opportunities to expand operations. Why speculate about Boston when Wroclaw will have testing?

What speculation they do not drug test never have, it will be interesting to see if the times in a drug tested event fall in line with untested events.
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Re: The World Games

Postby GJS » March 1st, 2017, 1:47 pm

I would sooner be beaten into second place by a drug-fuelled slab of muscle than win clean and be asked to give a urine/blood sample.

At the Crash-Bs and similar? Aside from the cost implications for C2 the idea, for me at least, casts a shadow of cynicism over a competition marked by friendliness and the toil of decent citizens.

If some wish to cheat, what of it? The loss is theirs.
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Re: The World Games

Postby jackarabit » March 1st, 2017, 3:03 pm

Droode writes:

will be interesting to see if the times in a drug tested event fall in line with untested events.


I agree that comparing times Boston vs. Wroclaw for athlete X or Y may speak to the intelligence and risk avoidance behavior of cheaters. Providing a venue without drug testing does NOT make C2 or the CRASH-B organization a primary facilitator of cheating. Criminal enterprise, sports betting, national prestige, and clever sports physiologist/doctors are the real enablers.
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Re: The World Games

Postby Droode » March 1st, 2017, 3:49 pm

jackarabit wrote:Droode writes:

will be interesting to see if the times in a drug tested event fall in line with untested events.


I agree that comparing times Boston vs. Wroclaw for athlete X or Y may speak to the intelligence and risk avoidance behavior of cheaters. Providing a venue without drug testing does NOT make C2 or the CRASH-B organization a primary facilitator of cheating. /Criminal enterprise, sports betting, national prestige, and clever sports physiologist/doctors are the real enablers.

Perhaps but it ultimately comes down to the athlete and there decisions.
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Re: The World Games

Postby Carl Watts » March 1st, 2017, 4:02 pm

Lets not kid ourselves, doping is rife in all sports.

Doesn't matter if there is no money in it and just a plastic trophy, its in some peoples nature to win at all costs.

Logic points to the fact the drugs will just get better and better and detection is always a difficult process. At some point in the future you will not be able to tell the difference between whats claimed to be natural and whats been enhanced.
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Re: The World Games

Postby Cyclist2 » March 1st, 2017, 7:45 pm

I still have the world rankings from 1987 for a few years, until C2 quite printing them. In 1989, M Siejkowski set the world record at 2500 meters in a time of 7:15.5. That equates to a 2000m time of 5:48.4 (or better, with 500m less pain). This year's CRASH-B fastest time was 5:45.8. My point is, times have not improved to the point that drugs are obviously playing a part.

As was noted, CRASH-B is an informal, fun competition that sort of "grew up". Who would dope specifically to win that hardware store hammer?! I speculate that, yes, there are some dopers there (did you see some of the physiques? Wow!) but they are doing it for other things, not CRASH-B. And as also noted, who cares? It's supposed to be fun, and I'm sure not going to worry about some guys doping, win or lose.

I just shake my head at the "monster" the Driessigacker brothers created when they bolted a bicycle wheel to the floor to do some winter rowing training. To see it in a World sport, with drug testing included, just blows my mind.
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Re: The World Games

Postby Edward4492 » March 2nd, 2017, 12:14 am

As a long time amateur bicycle racer I saw several local masters athletes get busted for doping; it got to a point where the NJ State Championships started testing. They had the WADA black tent, the whole nine yards. To make the common assertion that because there's no money in indoor rowing means there's no doping is quite frankly not reality. Hell, I drop close to a grand on Boston between hotel stays, meals,etc. And the investment in time and training. To make the comment that one would rather get beaten into second place by a doped up brute than pee in a cup, well everyone is entitled to their opinion; but it will never be mine. I watched a team mate lose a championship series to a doper (proven at a later date). I've seen too much of it at the lower levels of competition and it quite frankly disgusts me. It would be a great world if cheaters didn't exist.....but they do and at the least they deserve to be socially exiled from their respective sports. Quite frankly I'd be totally shocked if any of the people that are on this website and that I've met at CRASH B's were cheaters. But I'd be just as shocked if a couple of the brutes I saw at Boston were clean.
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Re: The World Games

Postby GJS » March 2nd, 2017, 3:32 am

The list of susbstances on the WADA prohibited list is here. Joe Bloggs will run afoul of it most years.

https://www.wada-ama.org/en/prohibited-list

Lots of masters and veterans at the Crash-Bs. Many take up the sport after their first significant medical scrape. Think about it.

Exclude certain groups from testing? Are you implying their competition is a trifling one?

Bring in TUIs? Really?

An utter minefield.
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Re: The World Games

Postby hjs » March 2nd, 2017, 3:46 am

Cyclist2 wrote:I still have the world rankings from 1987 for a few years, until C2 quite printing them. In 1989, M Siejkowski set the world record at 2500 meters in a time of 7:15.5. That equates to a 2000m time of 5:48.4 (or better, with 500m less pain). This year's CRASH-B fastest time was 5:45.8. My point is, times have not improved to the point that drugs are obviously playing a part.

As was noted, CRASH-B is an informal, fun competition that sort of "grew up". Who would dope specifically to win that hardware store hammer?! I speculate that, yes, there are some dopers there (did you see some of the physiques? Wow!) but they are doing it for other things, not CRASH-B. And as also noted, who cares? It's supposed to be fun, and I'm sure not going to worry about some guys doping, win or lose.

I just shake my head at the "monster" the Driessigacker brothers created when they bolted a bicycle wheel to the floor to do some winter rowing training. To see it in a World sport, with drug testing included, just blows my mind.


In an average gym, dope use is not uncommon, and thats certainly not for the money.

As for looks, just that someone looks fit or strong does not make him/her a doper, and given the fact rowing is mostly a aerobic sport, not looks but more the cycling kind of doping would work.

That said, don,t think erging has a big dope history. Only once a very strong guy, got caught, that was a cycler/erger, caught in cycling, for epo use. Won,t mention his name, but he was in the top ranks.
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Re: The World Games

Postby lindsayh » March 2nd, 2017, 6:01 am

my understanding is that WADA would want to have an agreement with a World Indoor Rowing Association (which doesn't exist of course) or the like rather than C2 or the CrashB organisers (tho maybe mistaken). I think on the balance I would prefer that we were tested. It is funny how often people ask about it and are surprised by the answer (a sign of the times I guess!).
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Re: The World Games

Postby GJS » March 2nd, 2017, 8:16 am

You're very likely right Lindsay. It still remains that any list of banned substances would, to be worthwhile, need to be long; and, if long, it will ensnare a lot of folks.
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