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Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 7:40 am
by Droode
GJS wrote:
hjs wrote:
Still leaves out blood and out of competion testing. Its pretty easy to get around testing on the day only.


Right. Without out of competition testing, testing on the day is pretty much window dressing.

IMO window dressing is better than no dressing at all it would at least be a step towards being in line with other organized sports. There is no perfect solution to weeding out dopers but something has surely got to be better than nothing. Why believe that any event held world record is honest look at how convinced Lance Armstrong was that he was clean and the amount of sheep that followed him, his story should be a lesson to all of us in the honest athlete.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 8:38 am
by hjs
Droode wrote:
GJS wrote:
hjs wrote:
Still leaves out blood and out of competion testing. Its pretty easy to get around testing on the day only.


Right. Without out of competition testing, testing on the day is pretty much window dressing.

IMO window dressing is better than no dressing at all it would at least be a step towards being in line with other organized sports. There is no perfect solution to weeding out dopers but something has surely got to be better than nothing. Why believe that any event held world record is honest look at how convinced Lance Armstrong was that he was clean and the amount of sheep that followed him, his story should be a lesson to all of us in the honest athlete.


Believe? I believe 95% of all track and field records woman are dope records, man slightly less.

I am against what you are saying, but don,t believe, atm, in a more or less serious solution.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 9:42 am
by Droode
It is not important if people are in agreement or against what I am saying, what is important is that there is a dialogue between people on the subject.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 10:53 am
by jackarabit
IMO window dressing is better than no dressing at all it would at least be a step towards being in line with other organized sports.


The UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) "dressed windows" for pro cycling for decades and continued to do so after the French thru back the curtains. USADA will clean the windows for the right people ("Corporations are people too, my friend.") at the right price. C2 and WIRC don't have that kind of economic horsepower so free admission and smudged but hardly opaque windows.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 11:07 am
by Droode
jackarabit wrote:
IMO window dressing is better than no dressing at all it would at least be a step towards being in line with other organized sports.


The UCI (Union Cycliste Internationale) "dressed windows" for pro cycling for decades and continued to do so after the French thru back the curtains. USADA will clean the windows for the right people ("Corporations are people too, my friend.") at the right price. C2 and WIRC don't have that kind of economic horsepower so free admission and smudged but hardly opaque windows.

Let's not kid ourselves the French did not throw open the curtains on anything until team Festina was busted and that began to shed light on the dirty UCI and the international pro cycling doping problems. I will say I do believe now France has some of the hardest doping testing of there athletes of all levels.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 11:38 am
by jackarabit
FADA is busy chasing down motors in seat tubes.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 12:16 pm
by hjs
jackarabit wrote:FADA is busy chasing down motors in seat tubes.


More an urban myth, every cyclist who gets caught that way, would be a laughing stock. Also easy to check.
Among veterans its pretty common to use them, not in racing but touring, makes it possible to ride with the younger riders.

And don,t know how its in the us, but over here, bikes are more and traded for, bikes with "help" motors. Gets you at work without being sweaty, a good rider easily goes 40/45km on those. First made for senior citizens, making it possible to travel longer distances or have help against the wind.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 12:33 pm
by G-dub
And now a view from the cynical cheap seats:

We the fans only really shout when people get caught, otherwise we like to see our athletes perform in super human fashion. I sort of accept the fact that the coaches and athletes are going to enhance their potential to the maximum they are morally capable of and/or based on their willingness to cause self harm or expose themselves to breaking the law. And it may sound really stupid, but to me, even though they are "legal", mega-dosing on beet juice, and/or amino acids, and/or sleeping in an altitude tent, and/or etc etc etc all are practiced in order to improve the ability to perform beyond the simple act of physical training anyway, so whats the difference? And it never has been a level playing field, whether that be because of race, upbringing, country of origin, genetics, diet,......I do draw the line on motors in seat tubes though :D

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 1:08 pm
by jackarabit
Uh, beet juice. Tha--tha--that would be Ed P. Amino acids? That would be Jack G. Now I'm not so certain about me and thee! :lol:

Henry, To this day, I can do a 25-30 miler on longer, steeper hills than you've ever seen without a tourist triple or batt assistance. Wouldn't do it in a 3-pc. suit with a straight bloc or single speed of course :roll:

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 1:11 pm
by Droode
G-dub wrote:And now a view from the cynical cheap seats:

We the fans only really shout when people get caught, otherwise we like to see our athletes perform in super human fashion. I sort of accept the fact that the coaches and athletes are going to enhance their potential to the maximum they are morally capable of and/or based on their willingness to cause self harm or expose themselves to breaking the law. And it may sound really stupid, but to me, even though they are "legal", mega-dosing on beet juice, and/or amino acids, and/or sleeping in an altitude tent, and/or etc etc etc all are practiced in order to improve the ability to perform beyond the simple act of physical training anyway, so whats the difference? And it never has been a level playing field, whether that be because of race, upbringing, country of origin, genetics, diet,......I do draw the line on motors in seat tubes though :D

Now do not going dragging beet juice into this, I love the beet juice :P , no all kidding aside I love beet juice.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 1:29 pm
by Droode
Droode wrote:
G-dub wrote:And now a view from the cynical cheap seats:

We the fans only really shout when people get caught, otherwise we like to see our athletes perform in super human fashion. I sort of accept the fact that the coaches and athletes are going to enhance their potential to the maximum they are morally capable of and/or based on their willingness to cause self harm or expose themselves to breaking the law. And it may sound really stupid, but to me, even though they are "legal", mega-dosing on beet juice, and/or amino acids, and/or sleeping in an altitude tent, and/or etc etc etc all are practiced in order to improve the ability to perform beyond the simple act of physical training anyway, so whats the difference? And it never has been a level playing field, whether that be because of race, upbringing, country of origin, genetics, diet,......I do draw the line on motors in seat tubes though :D

Now do not going dragging beet juice into this, I love the beet juice :P , no all kidding aside I love beet juice.

And coconut water, that is my secret one two punch beet juice and coconut water.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 1:38 pm
by GJS
I just hate to think that you might have any number of 50, 60, 70, 80 yr olds reflecting: 'Well I would have gone to Boston this weekend and joined in the fun and made some friends, but I decided that, on balance, I prefer living to erging.'

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 1:56 pm
by G-dub
Not at all Jack! I have tried the beet juice and the protein, tried creatine and have tried any number of other things that someone said would make a difference. And I probably will keep trying stuff. I have stopped short of anything called "drugs" (at least as it relates to improving athletic performance - Ive certainly done my share of those called recreational!) but have wondered about them from time to time. My point is that it still feels like I am doing something artificial in a way and the only reason I'm chugging down a giant glass of beet juice is so that I can break 7:00 (hasn't worked yet) so I can't truly blame others.

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 2:27 pm
by Shawn Baker
Beet juice-yuck!! :D

Just as an aside, when I was involved in organizing some highland game events I told participants that I "might" drug test

It resulted in several withdrawals :shock:

Re: The World Games

PostPosted: March 7th, 2017, 4:32 pm
by jackarabit
Very clever, Doc! Darn sight cheaper than a program of universal, year round, out of comp testing. Anybody "do" l-alanine and baking soda? Are performance extenders performance enhancers? Duuh--yes!