bucket rigging

Not sure where you should be posting? Put it here.

bucket rigging

Postby helpplease » April 12th, 2006, 6:29 pm

Yes i know this is an erging forum but i'm assuming you guys won't get mad because of this question.

Well could anyone tell me what is the purpose of bucket rigging a boat?
helpplease
Paddler
 
Posts: 19
Joined: March 21st, 2006, 9:43 pm

Re: bucket rigging

Postby PaulS » April 12th, 2006, 11:27 pm

helpplease wrote:Yes i know this is an erging forum but i'm assuming you guys won't get mad because of this question.

Well could anyone tell me what is the purpose of bucket rigging a boat?


Different reasons, depending on the boat and rowers, are you asking about a 4 or 8? Also give your configuration. i.e. 4 - PSSP or SPPS 8 - SPSPPSSP

4's often have to do with the power and steering concerns.
8's often have to do with experience levels and ease of synching with someone on the same side.

And then again, it could be for no particular reason at all, other than to do something a bit different from normal.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
User avatar
PaulS
10k Poster
 
Posts: 1212
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
Location: Washington State, USA

Postby Gus » April 13th, 2006, 2:12 am

I'd say the reasons are:

Poor coaching.

Inadequate numbers of athletes to be able to set up a balanced boat.

Athletes refusing or, to a much lesser degree, incapable of working on their weaknesses or changing their technique.
Gus
1k Poster
 
Posts: 152
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 1:19 pm

Postby PaulS » April 13th, 2006, 11:51 am

Gus wrote:I'd say the reasons are:

Poor coaching.

Inadequate numbers of athletes to be able to set up a balanced boat.

Athletes refusing or, to a much lesser degree, incapable of working on their weaknesses or changing their technique.


Yeah, those Italians, Brits, and East Germans seem to have all those problems. :roll:

Ooops, no they don't. B)

Gus, Have you ever rigged or rowed a boat this way, I haven't.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
User avatar
PaulS
10k Poster
 
Posts: 1212
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
Location: Washington State, USA

Postby dadams » April 13th, 2006, 11:54 am

PaulS wrote:
Gus wrote:I'd say the reasons are:

Poor coaching.

Inadequate numbers of athletes to be able to set up a balanced boat.

Athletes refusing or, to a much lesser degree, incapable of working on their weaknesses or changing their technique.


Yeah, those Italians, Brits, and East Germans seem to have all those problems. :roll:

Ooops, no they don't. B)

Gus, Have you ever rigged or rowed a boat this way, I haven't.


I'm not getting a good visual on this. Anyone have a picture, or can give a more detailed account of how this works?

Dwayne
Row hard, row well.
Image
dadams
500m Poster
 
Posts: 91
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 2:52 pm
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Postby johnlvs2run » April 13th, 2006, 12:03 pm

Dragging a bucket from a rope behind the boat is helpful when you want to increase the resistance of the boat through the water.
66 .. 5'9" .. 143lbs
http://johnlvs2run.wordpress.com/category/concept2-rowing-videos/
User avatar
johnlvs2run
Half Marathon Poster
 
Posts: 3227
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 1:13 pm
Location: western u.s.

Postby Gus » April 13th, 2006, 12:53 pm

PaulS wrote:Yeah, those Italians, Brits, and East Germans seem to have all those problems. :roll:

Ooops, no they don't. B)

Gus, Have you ever rigged or rowed a boat this way, I haven't.


I'd say they likely have two of the problems though when I answered I was thinking more along the lines of a program at less than an elite level.

I've only bucket rigged a boat way one time as an experiment.
Gus
1k Poster
 
Posts: 152
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 1:19 pm

Postby Ben Rea » April 13th, 2006, 1:47 pm

i never knew that was called bucket rigging, i did it once as a novice, thats just wierd though.
Male 18 164.8lbs 6'3"
2000m- 7:11.1 March 1, 2009
100m- 16.7s March 5, 2009
SUNY Albany
Ben Rea
2k Poster
 
Posts: 390
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 9:22 pm

Postby PaulS » April 13th, 2006, 2:30 pm

Gus wrote:
PaulS wrote:Yeah, those Italians, Brits, and East Germans seem to have all those problems. :roll:

Ooops, no they don't. B)

Gus, Have you ever rigged or rowed a boat this way, I haven't.


I'd say they likely have two of the problems though when I answered I was thinking more along the lines of a program at less than an elite level.

I've only bucket rigged a boat way one time as an experiment.


Well, now we may be getting somewhere, since unfortunately what is seen, or thought to be seen, at the elite level, is often immitated without an understanding of why it was being done. I'd agree that would fall into the category of "bad coaching".

How did your experiment work out? Why were you experimenting?

BTW - I forgot to mention the Dutch, who with Nikko Reinks at stroke produced a long standing Worlds Best Time in the M8+ that was a spectacular piece of rowing in a Bucket Rigged boat. And it was done in calm conditions, making it all the more impressive. Doubtful they were doing it as an "experiment".

I agree that if it were advantageous on it's own, there would be a lot more of it seen at the elite level, where it is still pretty rare.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
User avatar
PaulS
10k Poster
 
Posts: 1212
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
Location: Washington State, USA

Postby Gus » April 13th, 2006, 4:14 pm

PaulS wrote:How did your experiment work out? Why were you experimenting?

BTW - I forgot to mention the Dutch, who with Nikko Reinks at stroke produced a long standing Worlds Best Time in the M8+ that was a spectacular piece of rowing in a Bucket Rigged boat. And it was done in calm conditions, making it all the more impressive. Doubtful they were doing it as an "experiment".

I agree that if it were advantageous on it's own, there would be a lot more of it seen at the elite level, where it is still pretty rare.


Perhaps even more so at the "elite" level coaches are limited to a relatively small number of athletes that made the team. Often an athlete is selected because of other factors besides their ability to move a boat. In addition, athletes at this level have worked very hard to get there and some habits are not easily changed or you find an unwillingness on their part to change. The coach may not have the right combination of athletes and might find bucket rigging to be helpful.

My experiment was because the team was complaining that one side was outpulling the other and had decided that bucket rigging was the solution to the problem. I thought it would be a good opportunity to show why I'm the coach. The experiment worked perfectly and the rowers understood that some attitudes to work effort and technique needed to change instead of rigging.
Gus
1k Poster
 
Posts: 152
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 1:19 pm

Postby Hapa » April 13th, 2006, 4:28 pm

I believe that most coaches will use a bucket to even out the power distribution between port and starboard if there's a discrepancy between the two sides. It's another alternative to moving rowers around from front to back since you have to balance both their physical strength and their technical strength.

Here's a thread on a rowing forum that discusses some reasons. http://rowersworld.com/Community/viewto ... 95ce4079fe As it mentions, it's always a good thing for sweep rowers to be able to switch sides as it helps with placement and balance between everyone without have to try bucket rigging.

Aiko
Hapa
Paddler
 
Posts: 42
Joined: March 20th, 2006, 10:42 pm

Postby apdermond » April 16th, 2006, 8:38 pm

Our varsity 4 bucket rigs our boat. The two ports row a 6:22 and a 6:44 on their 2k's. The two starboards are in the 7:00's. Because of this, the boat will turn to the starboard side during races. The coxswain then has to adjust which costs time and offsets the boat. In order to prevent this , the boat is bucket rigged, mean rather then going port, starboard, port, starboard...it goes starboard, port, port, starboard. This cause the ports power to still be useful, but not turn the boat as much.
apdermond
Paddler
 
Posts: 10
Joined: April 13th, 2006, 3:14 pm

Bucket Rigging

Postby Rockin Roland » April 16th, 2006, 10:21 pm

You folk over there have strange name for rigging.

"Bucket rigging".......we call it "Tandem rigging" for obvious reasons, two out of the four row in tandem (next to each other on the same side of the boat).

Earlier in my rowing career I rowed in a tandem rigged four for two seasons because we were short of rowers of the same ability and the two strongest and heaviest rowers could only row on port (we call it bowside).

It worked really well and we won a number of races in our category. BUT in hindsight it would be far better to learn to row on the other side of the boat, which I ended up doing anyway. Reflecting back on those years I now view that as poor coaching. Now I can row both sides of the boat and scull as well which makes me a more versatile and complete oarsman.

In my opinion it's better to train all crew members to row both sides, rather than to resort to such measures, as it gives you more flexibility to different crew combinations.
PBs: 2K 6:13.4, 5K 16:32, 6K 19:55, 10K 33:49, 30min 8849m, 60min 17,309m
Caution: Static C2 ergs can ruin your technique and timing for rowing in a boat.
The best thing I ever did to improve my rowing was to sell my C2 and get a Rowperfect.
User avatar
Rockin Roland
5k Poster
 
Posts: 556
Joined: March 19th, 2006, 12:02 am
Location: Moving Flywheel

Postby eyespliced » April 16th, 2006, 11:21 pm

always wanted to try a bucket rigged 4... (i'm one of those big ports who upsets the balance) so yea... I also row starboard (better than I row port actually even though i row mostly port)
eyespliced
500m Poster
 
Posts: 70
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 12:04 am
Location: Berkeley CA

Re: Bucket Rigging

Postby PaulS » April 17th, 2006, 6:23 am

Rockin Roland wrote:You folk over there have strange name for rigging.

"Bucket rigging".......we call it "Tandem rigging" for obvious reasons, two out of the four row in tandem (next to each other on the same side of the boat).

Earlier in my rowing career I rowed in a tandem rigged four for two seasons because we were short of rowers of the same ability and the two strongest and heaviest rowers could only row on port (we call it bowside).


Well, you folks down under have a strange name for port, "bowside"? Above the equator many call port, "strokeside". :wink:

Personally I like to simply use port and starboard, because stroke and bow could potentially be on either side depending on the rig.

Finally, if the two ports are the stronger boat movers in a 4, it doesn't make sense to put them together in the middle pair of seats, as that would put the startboard side at more of a disadvantage than regular "port stroked" rigging. The other way around, pair of starboards in the middle, wouldn't help them either if the ports are genuinely the stronger boat movers. IOW, if the ports are pulling the startboards around, either the ports can ease up, the starboards can "man up", or there is going to be rudder involved, to keep a straight course.
Erg on,
Paul Smith
www.ps-sport.net Your source for Useful Rowing Accessories and Training Assistance.
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask me the question."
User avatar
PaulS
10k Poster
 
Posts: 1212
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:07 pm
Location: Washington State, USA

Next

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest