Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Rowing for weight loss or weight control? Start here.

Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby Larson » February 3rd, 2016, 9:16 pm

Hi,

I am not new to erging but I haven't done it for a while since I had been going to a poorly equipped gym without an ergometer. Just recently, I switched a gym and looking forward to going back to my beloved C2. I set up a weight loss programme as seen here http://indoorsportservices.co.uk/weightloss/interactive?excess=10&sessions=4&level=3&weight=99&programme=Generate+Programme

Now, in order to stick to the programme, I would have to measure my heart rate. Since I dont have a HR monitor, I was wondering if it was possible to measure HR in some other way. For example, I remember a couple of years ago on this forum (I couldnt find the exact thread) someone suggested measuring HR through watts. If I remember correctly, it was suggested back then that I should row 2k as fast as I could and then take my avarege watts as a base for measuring percentages for each training band. So lets say my avarege watts during 2k was 200, that would mean that training band AT (which is 80-85% of HR) would be 160-170 watts. Does this make sense or have I completely messed something up?

Also, if it was indeed possible to measure HR in such or a similar way, how would I measure the warm up, cooldown and recovery wattages? Would warm up and cooldown just be around 50% of my max average watts (so 100) or even less?

Thanks
Larson
Paddler
 
Posts: 4
Joined: February 3rd, 2016, 8:38 pm

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby Citroen » February 4th, 2016, 5:21 am

Do it the old fashioned way with a finger and a stopwatch (or clock with a sweep second hand). Count the pulse on your wrist for ten seconds, multiply by six.

There's also some phone apps that will use your camera and light.
https://play.google.com/store/search?q= ... ate&c=apps
User avatar
Citroen
SpamTeam
 
Posts: 4982
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:28 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby Larson » February 4th, 2016, 7:59 am

Yeah, the old fashion way is an option. But it can't really be done during the excercise, only between the intervals. I need something which I could monitor during the actual erging. And I remember monitoring watts used to give me a rough idea. But it was a long time ago and I forgot the formula.
Larson
Paddler
 
Posts: 4
Joined: February 3rd, 2016, 8:38 pm

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby teddyDK » February 4th, 2016, 11:26 am

Just keep it slow and easy and without too much effort. Then the intensity is about right.
If you could do a conversation then the speed is about right.
User avatar
teddyDK
1k Poster
 
Posts: 150
Joined: October 9th, 2015, 7:15 am

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby Bob S. » February 4th, 2016, 12:14 pm

teddyDK wrote:Just keep it slow and easy and without too much effort. Then the intensity is about right.
If you could do a conversation then the speed is about right.


All well and good for a UT2 romp, but the OP was referring to an AT piece.

The wattages for each zone are spelled out on the IP site, but require a recent, max effort 2k watt average. (45-60/60-70/70-80/80-105/105-115)
Bob S.
Marathon Poster
 
Posts: 5142
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 12:00 pm

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby hjs » February 4th, 2016, 1:03 pm

teddyDK wrote:Just keep it slow and easy and without too much effort. Then the intensity is about right.
If you could do a conversation then the speed is about right.


Indeed, breathing should stay calm, thats a good guide. Talking is a bit to easy imo :wink: But could work for very sessions.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing
User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby jamesg » February 4th, 2016, 2:51 pm

So lets say my average watts during 2k was 200, that would mean that training band AT (which is 80-85% of HR) would be 160-170 watts.

No, based on a 2k test, UT2 is up to 60% of test Watts, UT1 is 60-70% of test, AT is 70-80% (so 140-160W for a 200W 2k test). You can see these percentages in the other Interactive schedules, for 2k racing. Needless to say, a 2k time is heavily dependent on size, age, sex, past training and fitness, so can't be guessed.

For Long Slow Steady work with decent technique, UT2-1 may be at Watts 1.5 to 2 x your weight in kg unless seriously overweight. AT maybe up to 2.5 x Weight or more. Try it and see, then adjust. Alternatively, just use the specified ratings.

The WL schedules have a lot of AT work, and it won't be easy to control this without a HR monitor. Without, you'll probably do better to stick to LSS work for a few months.
77y, 188cm, 85kg, MHR 170. 3km/h in water, 10km/h on. Last 2k (1-16) 8.10@26
jamesg
10k Poster
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 3:44 am
Location: Trentino Italy

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby Carl Watts » February 4th, 2016, 4:59 pm

Just get a heartrate monitor, it takes the guesswork out of it.

There has been just a huge explosion of them on the market recently with the likes of the Fitbit, you can get it all in the watch without the cheststrap.

If the Gym has a PM4 or a PM5 you can simply get a cheststrap only like the Garmin one and have the HR display on the monitor which is far more convenient than on a watch for looking at during the row.
Carl Watts.
Age:50 Weight: 100kg Height:183cm Body fat:20%
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log
User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
 
Posts: 2671
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby Edward4492 » February 4th, 2016, 11:02 pm

Carl, dead on as always.Price point really a non-issue with what's available. I'm currently re-thinking a lot of my training ideas, knda looking past CRASH B's to next season. There seems to be mounting evidence (maybe it's been there all the time) that the secret to aerobic development is staying aerobic (duh!). I recently ran some numbers. Assuming my max HR is between 170 and 180 (which I've observed) that puts a 70% aerobic effort at 119 to 126 bpm. I've been reading up on Dr Phil Maffetone and the "Maffetone Method". He recommends endurance training at 180- your age. Yes, we've been down this road many times about the useless application of these types of formulas,but for me (180-59) it works out to 121bpm. Hmmm, pretty damn close to my other calculated ranges. It gets more interesting for my personal numbers. James G is always recommending training roughly in the 2w/kg range. Tonight I did 7500m and held the HR between 120 and 125 (122 average) at a 20r.Had to go pretty easy, finished with a 2:12 pace an 149 watts at 74kg bodyweight.

With the race season in full swing I'm still doing two violent interval sessions per week. But I've done a couple of these longer HR capped rows and I feel unbelievably fresh the next day. I'm thinking in the off season of staying in this range and bumping the volume, I could easily do 15k at this pace. I may also try some lactate testing to see if the 2.0 level I read about is consistent with my other numbers.

I've been reading about too many hard core endurance athletes running themselves into the ground with long, hard sessions. I was surprised that I could hammer away at 85-90% of my max for a very long time, up to an hour. But those efforts were debilitating. So... maybe another approach after CRASH B's.
Edward4492
10k Poster
 
Posts: 1478
Joined: March 7th, 2014, 11:34 pm

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby Larson » February 5th, 2016, 1:48 pm

jamesg wrote:
So lets say my average watts during 2k was 200, that would mean that training band AT (which is 80-85% of HR) would be 160-170 watts.

No, based on a 2k test, UT2 is up to 60% of test Watts, UT1 is 60-70% of test, AT is 70-80% (so 140-160W for a 200W 2k test). You can see these percentages in the other Interactive schedules, for 2k racing. Needless to say, a 2k time is heavily dependent on size, age, sex, past training and fitness, so can't be guessed.

For Long Slow Steady work with decent technique, UT2-1 may be at Watts 1.5 to 2 x your weight in kg unless seriously overweight. AT maybe up to 2.5 x Weight or more. Try it and see, then adjust. Alternatively, just use the specified ratings.

The WL schedules have a lot of AT work, and it won't be easy to control this without a HR monitor. Without, you'll probably do better to stick to LSS work for a few months.


Thanks. That was the formula I was looking for. I will try to stick to these percentages in my interactive programme while also doing new 2k tests every 2-3 weeks maybe to get new, hopefully improved watt avareges.

Having said this, your suggestion of 1.5-2 + my kg for UT1/2 seem a bit excessive to me. I have a bit less than 100kg at the moment (lets say its 100 for the sake of calculation) but I'm 1.95m tall so I dont really consider myself seriously overwieght. That would mean my UT1 would be 200 watts and UT2 150 watts. Isnt that a bit too much?
Larson
Paddler
 
Posts: 4
Joined: February 3rd, 2016, 8:38 pm

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby hjs » February 5th, 2016, 1:55 pm

Larson wrote:
Thanks. That was the formula I was looking for. I will try to stick to these percentages in my interactive programme while also doing new 2k tests every 2-3 weeks maybe to get new, hopefully improved watt avareges.

Having said this, your suggestion of 1.5-2 + my kg for UT1/2 seem a bit excessive to me. I have a bit less than 100kg at the moment (lets say its 100 for the sake of calculation) but I'm 1.95m tall so I dont really consider myself seriously overwieght. That would mean my UT1 would be 200 watts and UT2 150 watts. Isnt that a bit too much?


Those numbers are very rough, depending on talent and level of fitness those will vary big time. To give you an idea I saw a 60 min ut2 session. Rate 21, hf 140 cap from Bond the other day. He pulled 1.44 for that hour. 150 watt would let him fall asleep.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing
User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
 
Posts: 6814
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby jamesg » February 6th, 2016, 6:46 am

That would mean my UT1 would be 200 watts and UT2 150 watts. Isnt that a bit too much?


Both are top of the band, so UT2 is up to 150, UT is between the two. Anyway, just consider 90 kg, so max UT2= 135, max UT1 180W. If you're in that range for long enough, you're getting fit. If not there already, it won't take long. Training is dynamic, think of milestones, we fly past and what was impossible month ago is routine now. Quite soon you'll want to adjust up anyway, so starting low can do no harm.

There's also a discount for OAPs: I'm 75, 6'2" and work at 1.7-1.8 W/kg, based on 80 kg. If you're youngster of 60, sorry no discount, on the contrary.

The usual trick is to warm up slowly, and within 15 minutes get in hard cruise mode, identify that mode clearly for future reference, and stay there for another 30 minutes.

Keep an eye on technique to make the legs work: at your size a 10W stroke will turn out easy, it's only a question of stroke length and a quick pull. But 20 x 10W = 200W may not be easy now. We're all stronger than is good for us, at least the legs, when we start endurance work on the erg. After a year or so, we're wondering how to get stronger still.

Another trick to find a level is to warm up well, then do a one minute or a 500m test as hard, long and fast as possible, then train at half power.
77y, 188cm, 85kg, MHR 170. 3km/h in water, 10km/h on. Last 2k (1-16) 8.10@26
jamesg
10k Poster
 
Posts: 1913
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 3:44 am
Location: Trentino Italy

Re: Erging for weight loss without a heart rate monitor

Postby Larson » February 6th, 2016, 7:23 pm

All right. Thanks a lot for clarification and lots of useful info.
Larson
Paddler
 
Posts: 4
Joined: February 3rd, 2016, 8:38 pm


Return to Weight Loss & Weight Control

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest