Comparison: C2 Vs Oartec Vs Rowperfect

[Rockin Roland]

Last week I had the pleasure of competing in the Australian rowing masters championships at the Sydney international rowing centre (Olympic games rowing venue). In the warm-up area the business owners of rowperfect and oartec rowing simulators had several of their machines available for general use. I took advantage of this during the three day regatta and managed to get some serious meters on these machines for an evaluation comparison against the C2 benchmark. Here are some of my thoughts:

This is a long post so grab something to eat or drink before you start reading

ROWPERFECT

www.rowperfect.com.au


Both the current and new prototype (soon to go into production) rowperfects were there. I wasn't impressed with the soon to be superseded model. The foot straps were clumsy and awkward, the monorail was thin and generally the machine looked flimsy and ugly. However the rowing action of the moving flywheel felt really nice. I much prefered the feel of this over the C2 machines I have used with slides, probably because less mass had to be moved on the rowperfect.

The new about to be released rowperfect however was much better. It is much smaller and compact than a C2 erg and would have a definite advantage over a C2 if you needed to pack it into the back of your car to take away on holidays with you. The new machine actually looks quite atractive now. It uses the same black plastic foot board as the C2 & Oartec machines (I'm told all three manufacturers source these from the same supplier).

The new rowperfect still has the limited tilt seat which I felt did help train your balance for rowing on the water. I really enjoyed the overall dynamic rowing motion on this machine. However I can't see large framed obese Americans(or Brits or Aussies) with large behinds taking to this machine in order to get into shape. The limited tilt timber seat is too small and wonky to accommodate them and generally Americans like gadgets to play with. The Rowperfect has none. The Rowperfect only has an optional monitor which although is one of the best around is very expensive.

I questioned them about the lack of the monitor as standard and was told workouts should be measured by breathing and lactate levels. Not distance and splits. I also noticed a lot of people commenting while using the Rowperfect that they felt far less strain on the lower back than when using the C2 erg

OARTEC

www.oartec.com.au


The Oartec machine was a totally different experience to the other two. It offers a sweap oar and sculling motion all in the one machine. This machine has real presence. It's big, attractive and well built. The monorail for the seat is about three times the depth of a C2 erg. They told me it had to be to take the force that this machine generates. The fan/flywheel was also about three times the size of a C2 erg. Yet this thing can be guite easily be folded up and stacked upright in the corner of a room.

My first impression of using the sculling set up on the Oartec was that it was a very pleasant motion but seemed like hard work. Maybe because I was pulling and pushing with two oars/handles (rather than one) there was more load on the body. This would no doubt be great for putting muscles on muscles and eliminate the need for weights in a gym.

Then I tried the Oartec machine in the sweap oared mode. It was absolutely fantastic. It was by far the most enjoyable experience that I have had on any rowing machine. Now that is really saying something. Yet it was a stationary erg like the C2. The C2 erg is miles behind the Oartec as far as rowing pleasure goes.

After 30 minutes I struggle to stay interested in any rowing machine but I loved the Oartec sweap motion. I could do a marathon on this machine. I kept on coming back again and again for another row on this machine. It was such a joy to use. I want one to take home. It's that good.

The Oartec seat is large, softer than the C2 models and obviously designed for large people doing big distances. It is also much smoother and quieter than the C2 erg because it uses sturdy belt drives attached to shock cords rather than a chain. The Oartec is the Harley Davidson of rowing machines and would appeal to the big American. It's solid, got style and built for comfort. Unfortunately none have been sold in the USA yet.

The Oartec machine also came standard with a monitor that gave the same information as a Mobel B C2 erg. The good news is that they are going to calibrate this monitor/flywheel to be the same as a C2. They believe that there should be a universal measure and as C2 is the current world leader and standard then their monitor should be calibrated the same. Hence you could directly compare workouts on both machines. I wonder if C2 would accept a ranking for a workout done on an Oartec machine. The near future could be quite interesting.

I hope this gives everyone some feedback on these machines. Looking at website videos and pictures doesn't really give you a good idea of what these machines are like to use in real life hence it's always good to hear from someone with extensive erg experience that has used them.

[becz]

ROWPERFECT

I questioned them about the lack of the monitor as standard and was told workouts should be measured by breathing and lactate levels. Not distance and splits.

Great report Roland, thanks. I have to comment though, that the above statement about the monitor has got to be the dumbest piece of marketing crap I've ever heard. How many high-end successful pieces of fitness equipment have you been on that don't have a monitor? Would you buy a Rowperfect for home use without one?

So how did the champs go? I'm rowing in the US equivalent in August.

[Buckiller]

Hey hey hey!!! That Oartec looks AWESOME. I think Concept2 should buy the company and create a new model Rower just like this! I guess targeted for OTW people.

[Rockin Roland]

ROWPERFECT

I questioned them about the lack of the monitor as standard and was told workouts should be measured by breathing and lactate levels. Not distance and splits.

Great report Roland, thanks. I have to comment though, that the above statement about the monitor has got to be the dumbest piece of marketing crap I've ever heard. How many high-end successful pieces of fitness equipment have you been on that don't have a monitor? Would you buy a Rowperfect for home use without one?

So how did the champs go? I'm rowing in the US equivalent in August.

I would want just a basic monitor like that of the Oartec on a Rowperfect. I can understand where their coming from though. You should be listening to your body when working out on a rowing machine and not be too pre-occupied with all the data on the monitor. After all its the quality of movement/motion that makes a good rowing machine and not the monitor. The gym rats in a gym wouldn't sit on a rowing machine long enough to understand the data on a monitor anyway.

As for the Aust masters rowing champs I managed to get two medals. A silver in the MB8+, a bronze in MB4+ and only just missed out on a silver or bronze in the mens B quad in a very tight finish.

[Rockin Roland]

Hey hey hey!!! That Oartec looks AWESOME. I think Concept2 should buy the company and create a new model Rower just like this! I guess targeted for OTW people.

Perhaps they should buy them out to give it real justice because this machine kills a C2 erg. I couldn't believe how good it felt in my first sweap oar row on it. C2 could at least buy their seats from the same supplier that Oartec does. It was so much more comfortable than the C2 seat and uses the same rollers so would be easy to make it fit.

The Rowperfect requires some technical skills and is targeted more for OTW rowers whereas I'm certain the Oartec would have a much broader appeal. The Oartec would be great in any gym because it's a solid piece of equipment that could take a lot of abuse. Plus I don't believe you need a rowing background to jump on this thing and immediately get a good workout.

If all three machines were lined up next to each other in a gym I bet you the Oartec machine would get the most use and attention.

[Buckiller]

Hey hey hey!!! That Oartec looks AWESOME. I think Concept2 should buy the company and create a new model Rower just like this! I guess targeted for OTW people.

Perhaps they should buy them out to give it real justice because this machine kills a C2 erg. I couldn't believe how good it felt in my first sweap oar row on it. C2 could at least buy their seats from the same supplier that Oartec does. It was so much more comfortable than the C2 seat and uses the same rollers so would be easy to make it fit.

The Rowperfect requires some technical skills and is targeted more for OTW rowers whereas I'm certain the Oartec would have a much broader appeal. The Oartec would be great in any gym because it's a solid piece of equipment that could take a lot of abuse. Plus I don't believe you need a rowing background to jump on this thing and immediately get a good workout.

If all three machines were lined up next to each other in a gym I bet you the Oartec machine would get the most use and attention.

I agree to that! It looks very sturdy and people would be attracted to having actual oar handles to pull on imo.

Does the Oartec really allow you to work on the same technique as OTW? Because that would be great to have a coach by you, making sure you tap down and feather correctly (can you feather with this?)

I want to try this puppy out!

[ancho]

Thanks for the report, Roland, that was a nice read.
Have had (another) go on a Rowperfect this weekend, and would love to have a try7 on the Oartec.

[almostflipped]

Good report, great to hear knowledable reviews across the board. I've heard good things elsewhere about the Oartec machine (really kind of surprised C2 didn't make this type of design already), however I've also heard that it is considerably more expensive than the C2 or Rowperfect. Did you catch the price on it while testing it?

[Rockin Roland]

I agree to that! It looks very sturdy and people would be attracted to having actual oar handles to pull on imo.

Does the Oartec really allow you to work on the same technique as OTW? Because that would be great to have a coach by you, making sure you tap down and feather correctly (can you feather with this?)

I want to try this puppy out!

The Oartec is a stationary erg like the C2 however has certain distinct advantages for technique work over a C2 erg. It is designed to have the same configuration/set up as in a boat. When you sit on it you feel like you have the same posture as if you just got in a boat. Then you can adjust the foot board either closer or further away (plus higher and lower) so that the oar finishes in the correct position in relation to your body. The C2 erg doesn't feel anything like sitting in boat. You sit on a C2 erg and sit in a Oartec erg. Big difference in feel before you have even taken the first stroke.

There is no blade to square up or feather on the Oartec however OTW rowers experience the same tap down and rising to the catch motion as in a boat. Oar control is something it allows you to work on. In that regard I believe it's a far better coaching tool than a C2 erg.

The uncanny thing about the Oartec is that OTW rowers feel more comfortable rowing the same side oar on an Oartec as in a boat. I'm a stroke side rower so as an experiment I tried rowing on my opposite side on the Oartec. It felt uncomfortable just like it would feel for me in a boat. I don't know why because there is no balance to worry about. I changed to stroke side and immediately everything fell into place and I could really get the power on at high ratings. Once again you can't experience anything like that on a C2.

The Rowperfect was less stabile than either machines and had it's own unique motion and feel which would allow you to work on different aspects of your OTW technique.

If you got back on a C2 erg, after rowing the other two, it felt more like a piece of fitness training equipment than anything like a boat. Although it may sound like I'm raving a lot about the Oartec, there still were a number of things that the Rowperfect impressed me about. You must try all three because they all feel totally different from each other.

[Rockin Roland]

Good report, great to hear knowledable reviews across the board. I've heard good things elsewhere about the Oartec machine (really kind of surprised C2 didn't make this type of design already), however I've also heard that it is considerably more expensive than the C2 or Rowperfect. Did you catch the price on it while testing it?

I'm not sure how much it would cost for someone in the USA to get one. However in Australia it's between two to three times the price of a C2 erg purchased here. Looks like a lot of engineering has gone into it (seat monorail alone is 3 times the depth of a C2s). Even if you got the Chinese to make them I couldn't see them getting down to the price of a C2. It's a pretty big solid unit, 75kg if I recall correctly. A similar erg called the Biorower, originating from Europe, is twice the price of an Oartec, so it's still relatively cheap. Rowperfect is much cheaper.

[TabbRows]

As for the Aust masters rowing champs I managed to get two medals. A silver in the MB8+, a bronze in MB4+ and only just missed out on a silver or bronze in the mens B quad in a very tight finish.

Nice rowing Roland!

Thanks for the detailed reviews from a rower's perspective, without the marketing hype from sales/distrbutors reps. I have heard so much about how great the Rowperfect is, that I was disappointed to hear no monitor. So even with a HRM, how do I know what I'm doing? Like I can stop and take a blood sample for lactic acid build up measurement every time I erg. Most non OTW gym erg users look at time and calories. so they'd be put off by not being able to see that. I swear every time I go to the gym and do an erg workout, I'm changing the display units from calories.

Oartec would definitely be a hit in the US gyms because every Tom, dick or Sally would want to try it. The middleschoolers and high schools would beat the crap out of the oars and adjustments just "playing" on it. So, I'd say Oartec in a gym would require a separate room or special permission to use unless the gym is prepared to do heavy use maintenance. But Oartec is just the type of machine rowing clubs and schools need for teaching, training and coaching! Reminds me of those old stationary machines from back in the early part of the last century. Jeremy Irons used one in "Reveersal of Fortune". I thought it was kinda cool.

ST

[Buckiller]

having the oartec for OTW sweep rowers would be perfect because they could practice the opposite side to build muscle there as well (row OTW on one side, erg on the other... I have already noticed (after only 2 semesters rowing) a physical difference in my left and right arms, left and right quads, and certainly my stretching ability.

[PaulS]

Roland,

You seem to be very keen on this Oartec machine, but it has no "dynamic" capability, which is something you also have been very keen on in past critiques of RP and C2. Does that feature not matter so much in the Sweep simulation?

Note to self: Make sure to drop by LWRC and get a picture of the C2 Model A Sweep Oar set-up that has been there for the last 20 years.

[Rockin Roland]

Roland,

You seem to be very keen on this Oartec machine, but it has no "dynamic" capability, which is something you also have been very keen on in past critiques of RP and C2. Does that feature not matter so much in the Sweep simulation?

Note to self: Make sure to drop by LWRC and get a picture of the C2 Model A Sweep Oar set-up that has been there for the last 20 years.

Paul,
It's like test driving a new model car for the very first time. Expectations and first impressions don't always agree with each other, which can be further tainted when you try something else totally different.

I know I've always raved about the dynamic action of the Rowperfect. Their new, about to go into production, model is very good. I spoke to others at the Aust Rowing Masters testing them and the majority agreed with me that it's dynamic action felt really nice to row on. A much better feeling than the crank and dump action of a stationary C2 erg. Even with slides under a C2 erg it still doesn't feel right. There's too much mass moving around.

However, there was this impressive looking piece of engineering just a couple of meters away from the Rowperfect. It caught my eye, like everyone elses, so I had to have a go. I was very impressed with how comfortable it was. It's so big that you sit in it like a boat. I was even more impressed when I started sweap rowing on it. It's so very smooth and I loved flicking that oar backwards and forwards as I moved my left arm between my legs and sweaped in motion from my right hand side (strokeside). Sure it was stationary but it felt great to do. Not too different from in a boat.

Frankly the C2 erg can't give me that feeling. For me it was an anti-climax hoping back on a C2 erg after rowing both the Oartec and Rowperfect. If C2 had a sweap model 20 years back why didn't they stick with it? Why is their R&D dollars going into monitors instead of the machine itself and an unkown individual produce something like the Oartec?

You need to row on all three machines to decide for yourself which movement you enjoy most. I'd be very surprised if the majority of people picked the C2.

[PaulS]

Roland,

You seem to be very keen on this Oartec machine, but it has no "dynamic" capability, which is something you also have been very keen on in past critiques of RP and C2. Does that feature not matter so much in the Sweep simulation?

Note to self: Make sure to drop by LWRC and get a picture of the C2 Model A Sweep Oar set-up that has been there for the last 20 years.

Paul,
It's like test driving a new model car for the very first time. Expectations and first impressions don't always agree with each other, which can be further tainted when you try something else totally different.

I know I've always raved about the dynamic action of the Rowperfect. Their new, about to go into production, model is very good. I spoke to others at the Aust Rowing Masters testing them and the majority agreed with me that it's dynamic action felt really nice to row on. A much better feeling than the crank and dump action of a stationary C2 erg. Even with slides under a C2 erg it still doesn't feel right. There's too much mass moving around.

However, there was this impressive looking piece of engineering just a couple of meters away from the Rowperfect. It caught my eye, like everyone elses, so I had to have a go. I was very impressed with how comfortable it was. It's so big that you sit in it like a boat. I was even more impressed when I started sweap rowing on it. It's so very smooth and I loved flicking that oar backwards and forwards as I moved my left arm between my legs and sweaped in motion from my right hand side (strokeside). Sure it was stationary but it felt great to do. Not too different from in a boat.

Frankly the C2 erg can't give me that feeling. For me it was an anti-climax hoping back on a C2 erg after rowing both the Oartec and Rowperfect. If C2 had a sweap model 20 years back why didn't they stick with it? Why is their R&D dollars going into monitors instead of the machine itself and an unkown individual produce something like the Oartec?

You need to row on all three machines to decide for yourself which movement you enjoy most. I'd be very surprised if the majority of people picked the C2.

Sounds a lot like enfatuation to me.

I've rowed all models of C2 of course, as well as all models of the RP, so would surely jump at the chance to give the OarTec a try, it does indeed look like something that could be hauled around in the back of my Truck.

C2 did not design the sweep version of the Model A, I'm guessing that a certain Frank Cuningham was at least partially responsible for it. It did not appear to be a particularly "marketable" item, but it did work.

So now you say that a very heavy machine attached to the Earth feels "Not too different from in a boat."? Now of course I've argued for years that the term "dynamic Erg" is not particularly good, because there really isn't any "static erg" on the other side to compare. Also, that working to get a similar feel between being on Slides or the Ground is a good thing to help with technique. I can only conclude that you are coming around to a similar line of thinking, even if you still believe (an it may well be the case) that too much rowing on a grounded C2 hurt your OTW performance. I'd just say it had to do with the feedback you were paying attention to and that there are things that you learnt to make a flywheel spin fast that were detrimental to your OTW performance, but it does not HAVE to be that way. Feedback provided on the C2 with ErgMonitor can vastly improve the habits required for good OTW performance, we are still responsible for things like good timing and bladework, but you know that already. That it "felt" so different to you is likely more a problem in the technique area than a benefit of any particular machine. I've been doing alternate pieces on Slides and on Ground lately just to work out such technical issues for myself.