Frame-Lock Longevity Question

[raotor]

hello,

Due to space limitations, if I opt for a Model D for home use I wondered just how many connect//disconnect cycles the frame-lock mechanism is good for given that I might need to separate and reconnect the machine anywhere from 2 to 4 times per week.

I don't want a situation to develop where the frame-lock becomes worn or develops play in it due to repeated separation.

Anyone have an idea of just how wear-resistant the frame-lock mechanism is?


Regards

Steve

[hjs]

No problem, there is no wear at all.

[Citroen]

The redesigned model D2 framelock is designed to break down your rower every day.

[RowViking]

No problem, there is no wear at all.

That is not my experience at all - quite the contrary.
My C2 Model D from November 2014 (I bought new in March 2015) has only clocked 250.000 meters due a prolonged injury and has developed a spectacularly annoying play in the "frame lock mechanism". I feels as if the seat rollers have bad ball bearings or have become less than round but it is in fact the joint giving way when weight is shifted forward.

[raotor]

No problem, there is no wear at all.

That is not my experience at all - quite the contrary.
My C2 Model D from November 2014 (I bought new in March 2015) has only clocked 250.000 meters due a prolonged injury and has developed a spectacularly annoying play in the "frame lock mechanism". I feels as if the seat rollers have bad ball bearings or have become less than round but it is in fact the joint giving way when weight is shifted forward.

Seems you are unlucky indeed. I've had my Model D new since June 2014 and have some 6 million metres logged and have no issues with the frame lock. However, I do not connect and disconnect it and it has only been connected once after purchase and never disconnected. Given Concept 2's 5 year frame guarantee you should have no issues having Concept 2 replace the machine or defective part.

One thing I would say that I have gotten into the habit of doing as I see it as a possible way to remove unnecessary stress on the joint is to have my seat rest at the rear of the monorail by resting it atop of a piece of old cloth and sit down onto the machine at that location which has a support member directly beneath. Although likely not of any real benefit, I prefer to plonk myself down onto the seat when it is positioned above a strong point like the rear leg. I've seen some pretty heavy looking people literally fall down onto the seat in its usual forward resting position right over the frame lock joint which I'm sure places a lot of sudden point loading onto the joint.

[Gammmmo]

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=120326

[Gammmmo]

The redesigned model D2 framelock is designed to break down your rower every day.

when was that revision first introduced? what am I looking for? pics would help if anybody would be so kind....

[raotor]

The redesigned model D2 framelock is designed to break down your rower every day.

when was that revision first introduced? what am I looking for? pics would help if anybody would be so kind....

I believe the redesign of the frame lock came about back in around August 2007 with the introduction of the revised Model D which is technically referred to as the Model D2. So, any machine newer than that date bought new ought to be fine.

[sekitori]

I believe the redesign of the frame lock came about back in around August 2007 with the introduction of the revised Model D which is technically referred to as the Model D2. So, any machine newer than that date bought new ought to be fine.

According to the C2 website, the redesign was introduced in August, 2006. The first Model D was produced in July, 2003 and I purchased mine in October of that year. It has the old rotary frame lock. The newer frame lock is easier to engage and I would prefer it, but there is no way to retrofit it to my rower. The only problem with the old one is that it must be rotated completely to achieve a solid lock. That requires putting firm downward pressure on the handle to be sure it is.

I can see the advantage of having the new frame lock when the rower is constantly being separated and fastened together. That's not a problem for me because I don't take my rower apart very often. But when I have done so, it's been very easy to put back together securely--as long as I'm sure to connect the rotary lock as solidly as possible. Although it's outmoded and has been replaced by something better, when it's properly in place, the rotary lock has been quite dependable during the almost 13 years I've had the rower.

[jamesg]

Every so often, the old cam lock has to be tightened; it starts clicking. I stand the machine on end and slosh it but not too hard, with a half pound hammer. Best tool in the box.

[c2jonw]

raotor, frame lock and associated parts are hardly ever ordered by customers here at C2. The only wear that happens is a bit of friction/rubbing when the lock is operated. Rowing and weight bearing forces are all in the opposite direction of the lock, except in instances of very tall people who row with a very violent finish. Mostly the frame lock just holds things together when being wheeled around. C2JonW

[RowViking]

The only wear that happens is a bit of friction/rubbing when the lock is operated. Rowing and weight bearing forces are all in the opposite direction of the lock, except in instances of very tall people who row with a very violent finish. C2JonW

That is not entirely true. If you look at the way the lock is made up of two steel rods the lower embedded in a molded plastic thing and the top one is held against a circular cutout of steel (or castiron) by another plastic thing it is in no way as stable as the one on the Model C. Also there is a small vertical vector or force component from the pull in the footstraps (because the rower is pulling from a position above the joint) and a larger vertical load from the bodyweight when the seat is forward. That is clearly putting some stress on the joint and has led to the development of some "play" in my Model D2. The wear on the surface treatment of the top is visible in the attached photo.

The local C2 reps are closed (vacation...) and C2 themselves aren't responding, so I am not quite sure what to do about it. Using some high grade ball-bearing grease to make the movement less irritating may be a solution but I am not sure about the long term effect of this.

[RowViking]

Seems you are unlucky indeed. I've had my Model D new since June 2014 and have some 6 million metres logged and have no issues with the frame lock. However, I do not connect and disconnect it and it has only been connected once after purchase and never disconnected. Given Concept 2's 5 year frame guarantee you should have no issues having Concept 2 replace the machine or defective part.

Thanks I have tried to contact the local C2 reps and C2 and will keep trying till I get an answer.

[Gammmmo]

Seems you are unlucky indeed. I've had my Model D new since June 2014 and have some 6 million metres logged and have no issues with the frame lock. However, I do not connect and disconnect it and it has only been connected once after purchase and never disconnected. Given Concept 2's 5 year frame guarantee you should have no issues having Concept 2 replace the machine or defective part.

Thanks I have tried to contact the local C2 reps and C2 and will keep trying till I get an answer.

When you find out do report back...as a prospective purchaser I am interested in the likelihood of this being an issue and what Concept2 might do if anything...

[Carl Watts]

Just pulled my Model D2 apart and had a look at it. Its never been apart and it needed a clean in this area anyway.

Yes you can see the stainless rods have left some evidence on the nylon (mine is far worse than yours, the wear on the pins is microns you wouldn't even be able to measure it) but it makes no difference. The rigidity of the joint comes from your weight on the rower by way of the design. The bottom pin is a pivot and takes the radial load and the top pin takes the axial load when effectively the frame tries to go down under your weight. The more weight the more rigid it becomes to a point. The top lever does nothing more than stopping it fall in half if you lift the rear off the ground to move the rower. Steel on nylon is a good combination wear wise unless you get excessive amounts of grit that embeds itself in the nylon, in which case it rips the steel to bits but you need ALOT of movement between the surfaces to do this and it doesn't exist in this case. If you want to see what a bit of dust can do then look no further than the seat rollers and the slide. Fundamentally the design was the same in the Model C onwards, the camlock on the C was a pain if you continually wanted to disassemble and reassemble it as it jammed pretty solid, the latest D2 design is a refinement on something that works.