Dirt on rollers

Maintenance, accessories, operation. Anything to do with making your erg work.
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thomasbaerten
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by thomasbaerten » May 14th, 2019, 3:48 am

And how do you apply the oil? With a paper towel?
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sekitori
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by sekitori » May 14th, 2019, 11:14 am

thomasbaerten wrote:
May 14th, 2019, 3:48 am
And how do you apply the oil? With a paper towel?
I put one drop on each side of the rail directly from the mineral oil bottle or the 3-In-One oil can. Sliding the seat back and forth will spread it along the rail. I have never used baby oil but I imagine that it would be applied the same way. I use a paper towel to wipe off the residue.

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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by jag » May 14th, 2019, 2:29 pm

I don't think using oil is a good idea. As has been pointed out, it just collects more dust on the rail. Not sure what effect it would have on the plastic rollers either.

I think keeping it clean and dry is the best advice.

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Ombrax
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by Ombrax » May 14th, 2019, 7:08 pm

jag wrote:
May 14th, 2019, 2:29 pm
I don't think using oil is a good idea. As has been pointed out, it just collects more dust on the rail.
This did occur to me, but the folks who've tried it say that it's worked well for them.

Plus, we have established that not using it does result in issues with the buildup of black spots and bumps on the rail and rollers.

So, I figure it most likely can't hurt to try it at least for a while and see what happens.

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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by rowbike » May 15th, 2019, 11:33 am

jag wrote:
May 14th, 2019, 2:29 pm
I don't think using oil is a good idea. As has been pointed out, it just collects more dust on the rail. Not sure what effect it would have on the plastic rollers either.

I think keeping it clean and dry is the best advice.
If the oil is collecting dust it is probably being applied wrong, or maybe the wrong oil is being used. I have never experienced any collection of dust in the 5 years I've been using baby oil on the rail. Take some baby oil and buff the rail smooth. Don't leave any excess. You don't apply a lubricating layer of it like on the chain.

I found chain oil too thick and hard to buff out enough, eventually leading to gooey spots on the rail after rowing. I switched to baby oil and have not had that problem.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by Carl Watts » May 15th, 2019, 6:30 pm

jag wrote:
May 14th, 2019, 2:29 pm
I don't think using oil is a good idea. As has been pointed out, it just collects more dust on the rail. Not sure what effect it would have on the plastic rollers either.

I think keeping it clean and dry is the best advice.
I'm with you but each to their own. I do however wipe the slide and put a clean white cloth over my finger with some water on it and while pressing hard on the roller move the seat left and right on all four points of the rollers in contact with the slide until no more black comes off.I do this before every row.

All the oil is doing is keeping the black stainless partials in suspension and not allowing it to stick to the rollers. Your probably not going to have to wipe the slide as often and reapply the oil. I'm still not going to do it, it goes against my engineering principles, the rollers are supposed to roll, not be encouraged to skid and slide.
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by sekitori » May 16th, 2019, 12:13 pm

When I stated that I used mineral oil or 3-In-One oil on the rail, I did that only on the rare occasions where Windex didn't work. In over twenty years of use on three machines, I have used the oil less than ten times. Windex is my preferred choice and using it after every workout (and occasionally during a workout) for all those years hit has kept the rail and rollers as clean as possible and caused no damage at all. Others may disagree but far as I'm concerned, Windex is the best way to go.

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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by rowbike » May 16th, 2019, 5:57 pm

Carl Watts wrote:
May 15th, 2019, 6:30 pm
jag wrote:
May 14th, 2019, 2:29 pm
I don't think using oil is a good idea. As has been pointed out, it just collects more dust on the rail. Not sure what effect it would have on the plastic rollers either.

I think keeping it clean and dry is the best advice.
I'm with you but each to their own. I do however wipe the slide and put a clean white cloth over my finger with some water on it and while pressing hard on the roller move the seat left and right on all four points of the rollers in contact with the slide until no more black comes off.I do this before every row.

All the oil is doing is keeping the black stainless partials in suspension and not allowing it to stick to the rollers. Your probably not going to have to wipe the slide as often and reapply the oil. I'm still not going to do it, it goes against my engineering principles, the rollers are supposed to roll, not be encouraged to skid and slide.
Railroads use lubrication on the rails to reduce wear of train wheels. They need to use the right amount, not too much or too little. The proper amount reduces excess friction that prematurely wears down tracks and wheels, but still allows proper traction. It is a similar principle on the C2 rail. Less wear of the rollers and rail result in less wear and black buildup.

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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by jackarabit » May 16th, 2019, 11:10 pm

It is a similar principle on the C2 rail.
How so? I doubt you can make this stick to the wall, rowbike. Side load and frictional wear on the flanges of a C2 seat roller are practically non-existant.

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Carl Watts
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by Carl Watts » May 17th, 2019, 4:58 am

Train wheels is steel on steel so lubrication may work. Generally you want a softer material against a hard material and the right choice of materials becomes self lubricating. The Nylon rollers against stainless needs no lubrication. If you didn't have rollers and had a flat sliding surface on the seat, then sure, oil is a must, but like I said whatever works for you but at the end of the day its not really an area that is a big problem after a quick wipe down.
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jackarabit
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by jackarabit » May 17th, 2019, 9:11 am

Railroads use lubrication on the rails to reduce wear of train wheels.
Track greasers actuated by passage of trains are only employed on trackage sections of extreme curvature and only to the inboard, vertical face of rail which contacts the vertical face of wheel flange. The issue dealt with is heavy side load and resultant frictional wear to only the aforementioned areas. In no case known to me are the top surfaces or rails intentionally lubed. Horizontal contact area of wheels and rails produce traction (frictional contact) for both propulsion and braking. Certain as cows moo, trackage is sanded on heavy grades to preserve or produce additional traction.

The only railways at all analogous in propulsion method to the C2 rower are the cable and funicular systems in which a towing cable is spooled or retracted to move a payload which rides on passive, undriven axles and wheels. The passenger’s legs are the tow mechanism for the C2 seat.

The C2 rail has no or negligible curvature in plan view. There is no side loading of roller flanges and no need to lubricate to obviate wear that does not occur. The railroad analogy is not a sufficient argument for application of lubricant to the rail. Suspension of dust in a medium that allows particle “flow” rather than concentrated deposition is possible. If one thinks this is the benefit of applying mineral oil, one only need say so.

Carl’s engineering experience and instincts about where and when to lube or not to lube are correct imo. I clean the slide and roller contact surfaces with a dilute ammonia glass cleaner but chacun à son goofiness certainly.
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by rowbike » May 17th, 2019, 5:14 pm

jackarabit wrote:
May 17th, 2019, 9:11 am
Railroads use lubrication on the rails to reduce wear of train wheels.
Track greasers actuated by passage of trains are only employed on trackage sections of extreme curvature and only to the inboard, vertical face of rail which contacts the vertical face of wheel flange. The issue dealt with is heavy side load and resultant frictional wear to only the aforementioned areas. In no case known to me are the top surfaces or rails intentionally lubed. Horizontal contact area of wheels and rails produce traction (frictional contact) for both propulsion and braking. Certain as cows moo, trackage is sanded on heavy grades to preserve or produce additional traction.

The only railways at all analogous in propulsion method to the C2 rower are the cable and funicular systems in which a towing cable is spooled or retracted to move a payload which rides on passive, undriven axles and wheels. The passenger’s legs are the tow mechanism for the C2 seat.

The C2 rail has no or negligible curvature in plan view. There is no side loading of roller flanges and no need to lubricate to obviate wear that does not occur. The railroad analogy is not a sufficient argument for application of lubricant to the rail. Suspension of dust in a medium that allows particle “flow” rather than concentrated deposition is possible. If one thinks this is the benefit of applying mineral oil, one only need say so.

Carl’s engineering experience and instincts about where and when to lube or not to lube are correct imo. I clean the slide and roller contact surfaces with a dilute ammonia glass cleaner but chacun à son goofiness certainly.
As I stated, train tracks are lubricated to prevent undue wear and friction. One sign of this is squealing. It is quite common on a Concept2 to have squeaking on the rail, which is the same basic issue whether or not it is on a curve or the wheels and rail are dissimilar materials. People have noted their success stopping rail squeaks by oiling their rail on this board a number of times. This squeaking is also a sign of wear, which contributes to the black buildup on the track. Applying a lubricant is a universally recognized solution to this type of issue. For example, ball bearings are not engineered to be used dry, there should always be some sort of lubricant on them to reduce wear and friction, despite the fact they are expected to roll.

If you prefer to just use Windex and have a clean rail, more power to you. But there are a number of others on the board who find more success putting a little oil on the rail.

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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by Carl Watts » May 17th, 2019, 7:20 pm

Hell there are just too many rocket scientists here on this forum.

I have done several modifications to my rowers in areas I can see needed improving but the roller / stainless slide combination is not one that really needs attention for most people.

One of the problems I encountered is the stainless steel monorail cap only has double sided tape down either side and not across the total width. The raised gap and effectively unsealed gap in the middle allowed sweat to capillary action up the entire length of the rail and begin to start corroding everything, even the 304 Stainless. The cap eventually became totally unstuck and loose and was only retained at either end by the fasteners.

If you want to get picky, the old grey rollers are actually better than the newer white ones. I have had some problems with the sides of the newer rollers chipping off.

All you need to do is keep the slides and rollers clean, if not the rollers get pitted and the pressure points of the buildup can cause the track to deform and eventually crack in places.

The rower is really a very low maintenance piece of equipment so the to oil or not to oil the track is splitting hairs.
Carl Watts.
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jackarabit
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by jackarabit » May 17th, 2019, 8:43 pm

Hell there are just too many rocket scientists here on this forum.
I would’ve said loco oilers.
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Re: Dirt on rollers

Post by Carl Watts » May 18th, 2019, 8:40 pm

jackarabit wrote:
May 17th, 2019, 8:43 pm
Hell there are just too many rocket scientists here on this forum.
I would’ve said loco oilers.
I was going to say "Trainspotters" :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
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