Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Maintenance, accessories, operation. Anything to do with making your erg work.
btb1490
Paddler
Posts: 36
Joined: November 19th, 2011, 9:31 pm

Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by btb1490 » October 8th, 2019, 9:40 am

Our workplace just got a Stairmaster HIIT rower. https://corehandf.com/product/stairmaster-hiit-rower/ It sort of has the feel of a Concept2, but the monitor that comes with it is lacking. I was wondering if anyone has tried hooking up a Concept2 monitor on another type of rower, and if it would then provide the same type of data as if it were hooked up to a Concept2?

jamesg
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2468
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 3:44 am
Location: Trentino Italy

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by jamesg » October 8th, 2019, 9:56 am

Only if the type of flywheel and sensor are identical. What does the monitor show?
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

btb1490
Paddler
Posts: 36
Joined: November 19th, 2011, 9:31 pm

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by btb1490 » October 8th, 2019, 1:37 pm

Oh I assumed I would also need to attach the cable and sensor that go with the PM4/PM5 as well. The cable that attaches to the Stairmaster monitor has an ethernet connector, so it wouldn't work anyway. The monitor shows things like stroke rate. Watts. Calories. Distance. Time. Pace. But I know it's not calibrated very well. You set the damper to 1, and it says you are flying along with minimal effort, while at 10 you are working your butt off but it says you are barely moving. I could easily set a 2k PR by setting the damper to 1. There are no predefined workouts, so you have to manually set the distance or time each time, and the only way to increment the numbers is to hold the "+" button and wait for it to count up 10 meters at a time. Heaven forbid I want to row 10k, it would take longer to program the distance than it would to actually row it. There is no way to save a workout. No such thing as drag factor. No power curve. The C2 monitor spoils you.

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3156
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by Carl Watts » October 8th, 2019, 2:40 pm

Will not work unless you can get the concept 2 flywheel on it as well or you will just get meaningless numbers that cannot be compared to the C2 as the mass and characteristics of the flywheel are part of the math that makes the C2 unique.

Sell it and buy a C2 rower.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

User avatar
Ombrax
5k Poster
Posts: 563
Joined: April 20th, 2013, 2:05 am
Location: St Louis, MO

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by Ombrax » October 9th, 2019, 3:00 am

btb1490 wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 9:40 am
Our workplace just got a Stairmaster HIIT rower. https://corehandf.com/product/stairmaster-hiit-rower/
Wow - what a blatant ripoff that is of the C2 design. Does Stairmaster not have any shame?

Image

User avatar
Citroen
SpamTeam
Posts: 5844
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:28 pm
Location: Basingstoke, UK

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by Citroen » October 9th, 2019, 3:05 am

Ombrax wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 3:00 am
Wow - what a blatant ripoff that is of the C2 design. Does Stairmaster not have any shame?
That's what's allowed when your patent expires.

jamesg
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2468
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 3:44 am
Location: Trentino Italy

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by jamesg » October 9th, 2019, 3:53 am

The Watt is an ISO unit, so the machine should give accurate values, or it's false pretenses or worse. Off with their heads.
Try asking them if the Watt readout is accurate.
Also try doings some fairly energetic work, and relate the Watts seen to your "fit" weight. What's the ratio W/kg?
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

User avatar
Ombrax
5k Poster
Posts: 563
Joined: April 20th, 2013, 2:05 am
Location: St Louis, MO

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by Ombrax » October 9th, 2019, 4:00 am

jamesg wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 3:53 am
The Watt is an ISO unit, so the machine should give accurate values, or it's false pretenses or worse. Off with their heads.
Try asking them if the Watt readout is accurate.
Given that they didn't bother to put the effort into coming up with their own design, you have to wonder how hard they would try to do the stuff that's more difficult to reverse-engineer, like the algorithms to calculate power based on the motion of the flywheel.

btb1490
Paddler
Posts: 36
Joined: November 19th, 2011, 9:31 pm

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by btb1490 » October 9th, 2019, 8:36 am

Ombrax wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 3:00 am
btb1490 wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 9:40 am
Our workplace just got a Stairmaster HIIT rower. https://corehandf.com/product/stairmaster-hiit-rower/
Wow - what a blatant ripoff that is of the C2 design. Does Stairmaster not have any shame?

Image
Well they did add water bottle holders under the foot pads....

btb1490
Paddler
Posts: 36
Joined: November 19th, 2011, 9:31 pm

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by btb1490 » October 9th, 2019, 8:40 am

Carl Watts wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 2:40 pm
Will not work unless you can get the concept 2 flywheel on it as well or you will just get meaningless numbers that cannot be compared to the C2 as the mass and characteristics of the flywheel are part of the math that makes the C2 unique.

Sell it and buy a C2 rower.
Yeah, I figured the flywheel had something to do with it. Chances are since they copied everything else from the C2, they also copied the flywheel, so I may just try it anyway.

When HR said they were getting a rower, of course I suggested the C2, but the dealer they went through said that this one was better... I guess more expensive equates to better in some peoples minds.

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3156
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by Carl Watts » October 9th, 2019, 12:22 pm

Post up some pictures of it and the flywheel it would be interesting.

Sounds crazy to pay MORE for an inferior rower to me.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

User avatar
Ombrax
5k Poster
Posts: 563
Joined: April 20th, 2013, 2:05 am
Location: St Louis, MO

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by Ombrax » October 9th, 2019, 3:17 pm

btb1490 wrote:
October 9th, 2019, 8:36 am
Well they did add water bottle holders under the foot pads....
I noticed that - a location that isn't as convenient as sitting on the ground next to the rower...

User avatar
Carl Watts
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3156
Joined: January 8th, 2010, 4:35 pm
Location: NEW ZEALAND

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by Carl Watts » October 9th, 2019, 5:19 pm

Interesting but as you have already discovered, even though the "Patient" for the design has expired, they cannot get the IP that has been in the monitor since 1986 !!!!!!!!

All the smarts are in the monitor so anyone serious about their indoor rowing will still purchase a Concept 2 and in any case why would anyone pay MORE for that, than a Model D ? What so you can throw away the flywheel and pickup and buy a new monitor to try and make it like a Model D ? Crazy.

Chances are you cannot even convert it, personally wouldn't waste my time on it, either use it as is or sell it.

It will have very low resale value, take a brick bat to the HR person.
Carl Watts.
Age:52 Weight: 104kg Height:183cm
Concept 2 Monitor Service Technician & indoor rower.
http://log.concept2.com/profile/863525/log

btb1490
Paddler
Posts: 36
Joined: November 19th, 2011, 9:31 pm

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by btb1490 » October 10th, 2019, 2:05 pm

I asked HR if they could return it and get a C2. So they contacted the gym company they bought it from, and this was their reply.

"The Stairmaster HIIT Rower was designed based on the Concept 2, but they refined with better features, adjustable console height, heavier gauge frame, etc...mush better unit. "

I can pretty much assume that this person never spent a day on an erg in his/her life.

It is what it is. I should be thankful we at least have something here at work.

Allan Olesen
2k Poster
Posts: 371
Joined: April 27th, 2018, 6:40 am

Re: Hooking up a PM4/5 to a non C2 rower

Post by Allan Olesen » October 10th, 2019, 2:17 pm

btb1490 wrote:
October 8th, 2019, 1:37 pm
You set the damper to 1, and it says you are flying along with minimal effort, while at 10 you are working your butt off but it says you are barely moving.
Does the same happen if you switch to watt instead of pace?

On a C2, pace is a simple function of measured power. But that doesn't have to be the case with any rower out there. So perhaps the Stairmaster can actually measure your power correctly, but it doesn't use that power in the pace calculation.

Post Reply