Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Maintenance, accessories, operation. Anything to do with making your erg work.
chrisscott6300
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Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by chrisscott6300 » November 26th, 2020, 3:54 pm

Hello,

I was having a crack at some sprints this evening on the slides and seem to have encountered a problem with the chain slipping when I get towards max wattages. I wasn’t having the same problem last week, and the erg seems to row smoothly otherwise.

Could anyone offer any advice as to whether I need to strip the thing down and replace some components?

Here’s a video of one of the slips:
https://youtu.be/LGGwDUZ5BAY
Chris Scott - 32, 198cm, 1:13.2/500
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hjs
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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by hjs » November 26th, 2020, 4:17 pm

chrisscott6300 wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 3:54 pm
Hello,

I was having a crack at some sprints this evening on the slides and seem to have encountered a problem with the chain slipping when I get towards max wattages. I wasn’t having the same problem last week, and the erg seems to row smoothly otherwise.

Could anyone offer any advice as to whether I need to strip the thing down and replace some components?

Here’s a video of one of the slips:
https://youtu.be/LGGwDUZ5BAY
Its 99% certain the Chriss. Needs oil and if its really broken it can be replaced. On the c2 can be found how. Its in the case, so you need that to take off etc..

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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by mict450 » November 26th, 2020, 5:32 pm

Do you mean the "clutch", Henry?
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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by jamesg » November 26th, 2020, 5:42 pm

Looks like you're outdoors; if T <12C odd things can happen.
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hjs
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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by hjs » November 26th, 2020, 6:08 pm

mict450 wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 5:32 pm
Do you mean the "clutch", Henry?
:roll: Yess, thx

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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by chrisscott6300 » November 26th, 2020, 6:11 pm

hjs wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 4:17 pm
chrisscott6300 wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 3:54 pm
Hello,

I was having a crack at some sprints this evening on the slides and seem to have encountered a problem with the chain slipping when I get towards max wattages. I wasn’t having the same problem last week, and the erg seems to row smoothly otherwise.

Could anyone offer any advice as to whether I need to strip the thing down and replace some components?

Here’s a video of one of the slips:
https://youtu.be/LGGwDUZ5BAY
Its 99% certain the Chriss. Needs oil and if its really broken it can be replaced. On the c2 can be found how. Its in the case, so you need that to take off etc..
Thank you - I’ll definitely give it an oil as a first step and go from there.
Chris Scott - 32, 198cm, 1:13.2/500
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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by chrisscott6300 » November 26th, 2020, 6:19 pm

jamesg wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 5:42 pm
Looks like you're outdoors; if T <12C odd things can happen.
That’s an interesting thought, do you think it’s likely the temperature could have such an effect on the machine?
Chris Scott - 32, 198cm, 1:13.2/500
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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by Dino » November 26th, 2020, 8:49 pm

chrisscott6300 wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 6:11 pm
hjs wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 4:17 pm
chrisscott6300 wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 3:54 pm
Hello,

I was having a crack at some sprints this evening on the slides and seem to have encountered a problem with the chain slipping when I get towards max wattages. I wasn’t having the same problem last week, and the erg seems to row smoothly otherwise.

Could anyone offer any advice as to whether I need to strip the thing down and replace some components?

Here’s a video of one of the slips:
https://youtu.be/LGGwDUZ5BAY
Its 99% certain the Chriss. Needs oil and if its really broken it can be replaced. On the c2 can be found how. Its in the case, so you need that to take off etc..
Thank you - I’ll definitely give it an oil as a first step and go from there.
Blimey - could certainly put something out going from max oomph to finding no resistance :shock:
Did you find the page on the C2 site Chris?
https://www.concept2.co.uk/service/indo ... resistance
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Carl Watts
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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by Carl Watts » November 27th, 2020, 3:50 am

The one way or clutch bearing is failing under higher loads.

Its located inside the flywheel, remove the flywheel and apply some light oil on it.

If it continues to slip, its stuffed and needs replacement. Replacing the bearing only is quite difficult, you need to be able to make a bearing puller. most people replace the whole flywheel.
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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by nick rockliff » November 27th, 2020, 6:56 am

chrisscott6300 wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 6:19 pm
jamesg wrote:
November 26th, 2020, 5:42 pm
Looks like you're outdoors; if T <12C odd things can happen.
That’s an interesting thought, do you think it’s likely the temperature could have such an effect on the machine?
Yes, I used mine outdoors most of the time. When it got colder the grease in the clutch bearing gets hard and prevents the rollers gripping the shaft.

Take the flywheel off, clean out all of the old lubricant and re-lube with lights oil.
63 6' 4" 103kg
PBs 2k 6:16.4 5k 16:37.5 10k 34:35.5 30m 8727 60m 17059 HM 74:25.9 FM 2:43:48.8
50s PBs 2k 6.24.3 5k 16.55.4 6k 20.34.2 10k 35.19.0 30m 8633 60m 16685 HM 76.48.7
60s PBs 5k 17.51.2 10k 36.42.6 30m 8263 60m 16089 HM 79.16.6

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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by Ergmeister » November 27th, 2020, 2:24 pm

Carl Watts is spot on; its likely the one-way bearing a/k/a clutch bearing that is in flywheel center. They can become fouled with lint over time, but more likely since that appears to be a fairly new rower, the bearing itself is not engaging on the drive. It could be oil and it could also be a slightly broken retainer in the bearing allowing it to miss the cinch on the catch and drive.

Does this slip a little on the drive at much lower stroke rates? Feel it slip while on the drive at all, or only on the high stroke rate hard pull you show in the video? C-2 sells these bearings mounted in a nut as an axle removal tool. In the past I never had any issues with them but in recent years, i've had a rash of them break be useless. I think they changed from metal slot retainer to plastic in the bearing itself, and that is what has failed multiple times on me under load. C2 actually stopped selling these because of this. If one side of the plastic "spring" breaks, you might be hitting that exact spot when it fails to engage on the hard drive. The bearing is a needle bearing with spring loaded rollers designed to slip on the recovery and engage on the drive. Pull the flywheel and get a magnifying glass and light and carefully inspect the flywheel center bearing. If its fouled with lint or fuzz, use an air tool to clean it out and then lubricate with a few drops of 3 in 1 oil.

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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by chrisscott6300 » November 27th, 2020, 4:18 pm

Thanks guys, these are some really informative replies. I’m going to dismantle tomorrow and give it a clean and inspection.

I gave it a quick spin this evening without slides just down to 1:10 pace for a couple of hundred metres and everything felt fine, so it only seems to be at the higher rate and down at the 1:00/500m/1600w point.
Chris Scott - 32, 198cm, 1:13.2/500
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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by GreenStratMan » November 28th, 2020, 9:10 am

Carl Watts wrote:
November 27th, 2020, 3:50 am
The one way or clutch bearing is failing under higher loads.

Its located inside the flywheel, remove the flywheel and apply some light oil on it.

If it continues to slip, its stuffed and needs replacement. Replacing the bearing only is quite difficult, you need to be able to make a bearing puller. most people replace the whole flywheel.
Hi, can you buy the flywheel from concept2? I don’t see it on the website. Google search shows 3rd party sellers. I don’t think I need one. Just that my model concept2 is years old and I’m thinking about the future.

Is it worth cleaning the clutch periodically and lubing it or just leave it alone if the machine is running ok?

Thanks
Kevin, born ‘69. 6’5” 100kg

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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by chrisscott6300 » November 28th, 2020, 4:57 pm

Well I opened the machine today. It’s done 900k metres and I was pleasantly surprised at how clean the insides were. Nothing looked damaged inside the flywheel, and the teeth on the cog at the end of the chain look fine too. I gave it plenty of lubricant all round and I’m hoping it was something as simple as the cold temperature and needing an oil! But, if it happens again I’ll have to think again!
Chris Scott - 32, 198cm, 1:13.2/500
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Ergmeister
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Re: Chain Slip? Advice Please!

Post by Ergmeister » November 29th, 2020, 12:36 pm

chrisscott6300 wrote:
November 28th, 2020, 4:57 pm
...I gave it plenty of lubricant all round and I’m hoping it was something as simple as the cold temperature and needing an oil! But, if it happens again I’ll have to think again!
...I gave it a quick spin this evening without slides just down to 1:10 pace for a couple of hundred metres and everything felt fine, so it only seems to be at the higher rate and down at the 1:00/500m/1600w point...
Chris - "plenty of lubricant" is not as helpful as you might expect. The appropriate amount where needed is helpful. If there is excess oil, it tends to get flung around the flywheel and inside the rail (check the plastic slide cover) and in turn that collects lint and fouls up much more quickly. Good luck with your rower. When I read that you are pulling 1:00 500 meter splits, I'm not sure that any rower could stand up to that level of use. That is world record level pulling! https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... weight=All If you can truly pull a 1 minute 500, you can own the world record where 1:10 is the lowest that I see.

Also, I suspect the slides have some adverse play in the snap inertia that may be causing the one-way bearing to miss grabbing.

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