Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Maintenance, accessories, operation. Anything to do with making your erg work.
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Cant Climb
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Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Post by Cant Climb » December 11th, 2017, 11:13 am

So my son was at a Birthday party on Saturday evening. This was a 4 hour deal. I thought I’d hang for most of it but wanted to slip out for an hour or so and doing some rowing for the Holiday Challenge. Using google maps I had scanned the area looking for some potential places to set up my rower and not draw any attention. I had a list of 4 or 5 potential spots and but found a nice parking lot tucked in behind an office building, it was the perfect location. I get there and pull the rower out of the back of my VW and set it up. I quickly change and start off on rowing a 10K. The temperature outside was 29F. The temp wasn't bad but I quickly became frigid because I forgot about the C-Breeze on my C2 fan. The wind chill from the C-Breeze felt about 10F, it was cold. So I’m rowing along at a decent clip thinking about stopping and removing the C-Breeze. The rower felt different than usually when rowing indoors, the catch was very very solid. Almost felt like putting a climbing Axe into Ice. Was a very solid catch. I didn't check the drag factor but the damper setting was a bit lower than 5 where I usually have it, I’ve been rowing lately with a DF approx 105. So I’m rowing along, about 1800 meters into a 10K and I fly backwards in the push phase. I was sort of stunned. The flywheel didn't catch I thought. This never happened before so I chalked it up to a one-off. I reprogrammed the PM5 to finish up the 10K and 500 meters later the same thing. I tried 2 more times reprogram and row and about 200 meters in each time, the same thing.........so I gave up. I then started to research and found this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IjbnINLJvgM

Here is the thing though. The next day at home we lubed the chain and I did several tests and no slippage. I rowed a brisk 8K and my son did a few rounds of the Fish and Darts game and no problems. So was it the cold weather alone....?....the wind chill inside the fan......?.....chain needed lube....?.....or should I replace my chain and sprocket.....?

The machine is a Model D, circa 2006-ish. I'd estimate the chain has 1-3 million miles on it, which really isn't that much. I've never been much for logging my rowing so that mileage is a rough estimation. The machine sat unused for about 4 years after I had my left shoulder reconstructed, I started back rowing in June17 and the machine has been flawless up until this point.

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c2jonw
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Re: Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Post by c2jonw » December 11th, 2017, 11:51 am

It's most likely the cold, which can result a skipping chain or a slipping clutch. Was there any grinding or popping associated with the events? When the chain skips on the sprocket it's pretty noisy. If it was a quiet event then it's most likely the lubricant in the flywheel clutch mechanism getting thicker when it gets cold- which can result in performance issues. If you're never going to row in the cold again then no there's need to do anything further. It isn't difficult to lube the clutch should you ever want to- open the cover, remover the flywheel and apply a few drops of light oil to the clutch. This may make it perform better in the cold. C2JonW
67 year old living in Waterbury Center, Vermont, USA
Concept2 employee since 1980! and what a long, strange trip it's been......and retiring from C2 in October 2018!

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jackarabit
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Re: Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Post by jackarabit » December 11th, 2017, 12:00 pm

Balls or pins in the 1-way flywheel clutch bearing not engaging due to high lube viscosity at 29°F? See Jon faster on the button with complete answer. :D
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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hjs
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Re: Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Post by hjs » December 11th, 2017, 12:04 pm

Have had that in drizzle, out if the blue, zero resistance, tricky, and very bad on the back, indoor and dry it was over right away.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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c2jonw
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Re: Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Post by c2jonw » December 11th, 2017, 2:59 pm

The rower felt different than usually when rowing indoors, the catch was very very solid. Almost felt like putting a climbing Axe into Ice. Was a very solid catch. I didn't check the drag factor but the damper setting was a bit lower than 5 where I usually have it, I’ve been rowing lately with a DF approx 105.
That heavier feel was probably the higher drag factor achieved at colder temperatures.....C2JonW
67 year old living in Waterbury Center, Vermont, USA
Concept2 employee since 1980! and what a long, strange trip it's been......and retiring from C2 in October 2018!

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Cant Climb
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Re: Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Post by Cant Climb » December 11th, 2017, 4:13 pm

Well thanks for the replies. I will keep my fingers crossed.

A sort of new fad is taking the Model D anywhere and rowing outside.
I was excited about this particular row, I've never rowed anywhere but inside my house.
So i was super bummed and quite frankly scared when this happened.
Testing yesterday indoors i made sure the area behind was clear of anything i could bang my head on.

I just wonder has there ever been any thought into putting a "chain guide" on the machine sort of like chain guides on a Mountain Bike to help keep the chain contained and on track....?..

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c2jonw
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Re: Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Post by c2jonw » December 11th, 2017, 4:46 pm

I just wonder has there ever been any thought into putting a "chain guide" on the machine sort of like chain guides on a Mountain Bike to help keep the chain contained and on track....?..
Yep- in fact there is a feature on the generator housing that protrudes down very close to the sprocket and it serves to keep the chain in place. By the way, if you decide to continue with the cold weather rowing I'd definitely suggest lubing the clutch with some light oil to minimize the chances of slipping. C2JonW
67 year old living in Waterbury Center, Vermont, USA
Concept2 employee since 1980! and what a long, strange trip it's been......and retiring from C2 in October 2018!

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Cant Climb
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Re: Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Post by Cant Climb » December 11th, 2017, 4:58 pm

The video i linked above is a guy changing the Chain and sprocket, so clutch sounds like a different part.

Are there any instructions on how to lube the Clutch...?....I'd definitely like to do that.

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c2jonw
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Re: Rowing below freezing and slippage.

Post by c2jonw » December 11th, 2017, 5:11 pm

Are there any instructions on how to lube the Clutch...?....I'd definitely like to do that.
Follow these to get the flywheel off: http://www.concept2.com/files/pdf/us/in ... cement.pdf

When you get the flywheel off the axle, look in the axle hole on the non-fan side of the flywheel. You'll see a number of pins or rollers, which are the clutch. Apply a few drops of 3-in- one oil (or a similar 20-weight oil) to the rollers. Carefully reinstall the flywheel on the axle and follow the directions for putting the cover back on. Contact me directly if needed......C2JonW
67 year old living in Waterbury Center, Vermont, USA
Concept2 employee since 1980! and what a long, strange trip it's been......and retiring from C2 in October 2018!

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