Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Maintenance, accessories, operation. Anything to do with making your erg work.
MPx
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Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by MPx » January 5th, 2019, 4:31 pm

I've just changed/renewed all my kit over the Christmas period and now have a ModelD with PM5 which I link to my iPhone 6s/iOS running Ergdata cast through Apple TV to a large screen. I also have a Garmin chest belt and use a USB memory stick for storage. I've managed to make all this stuff work but I'm finding it very clunky compared to my old ModelC with PM3 and log card linked to RowPro3 on Windows 10 also linked to the big screen and using a Polar chest belt and C2 HR pickup.

Basically I used to switch on the TV and laptop which would fire up the PM3 automatically. I could then pick my session on rowpro and set off. Everything just worked (except when it crashed about once a month) and I didn't have to do anything to have the data stored in RowPro and on the log card. Every so often I used the C2 utility on the laptop to upload the latest sessions to the online log.

Now I have to try to get stuff working in order...and nothing "just works", I have to set every bit up every time. So (for example) today I forgot to tell the PM5 to link to my chest belt so I got no HR data. It knows about it. If I go through the menus its there for me to confirm, but do I really have to do that each time? Is there a way to set it so that when the PM5 switches on it will auto link to a chestbelt it already knows if its in range?

Anyway current set up means:
Switch on TV
Get iPhone to mirror to TV
Switch on PM5
Get Chestbelt linked to PM5
Back to main menu
Link (wire) from PM5 to iPhone
Put USB Memory into PM5
Select one of custom/fav workouts as WU
Row WU
Return to main menu (PM5 loses sight of USB stick)
Remove USB from PM5 - then reinsert.
Move WU workout from memory to USB stick and/or select main piece from custom/fav workouts
Row main piece
Return to main menu (PM5 loses sight of USB stick)
Remove USB from PM5 - then reinsert
Move main workout from memory to USB stick and/or select CD piece from custom/fav workouts
Row CD
return to main menu (PM5 loses sight of USB stick)
Remove USB from PM5 - then reinsert
Move CD workout from memory to USB stick (and WU and main piece if I didn't do them earlier)
Scroll to the Ergdata log and sync to the online log (this is the only bit that works better than the old set up!)

What a load of Pfaff! Is there a better way? Suggestions appreciated.
Mike - 61 HWT 183

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vepjan
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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by vepjan » January 5th, 2019, 7:08 pm

If your old setup was working, why not just plug the pm5 into the computer the way the pm3 was? If you have
a USB key inserted it would work like a log card and remember your heart rate belt.

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by MPx » January 6th, 2019, 10:53 am

Thanks Vepjan. Not so keen on the old computer link as it was RowPro 3 which is obsolete now, but all reports I've read of RP 4 and 5 seem to have even more drawbacks so not encouraging. The "new way" seems to be Ergdata which I'm trying to engage with.

I'm interested in your USB key point. I'd ideally like to leave the USB in the PM5 all the time as it has my favourite workouts on it and its where I record my log. But the PM5 "loses sight" of it every time I revert to the main menu screen. I then have to take it out - then reinsert it, and the PM5 recognises it again and presents it as part of the menus. Is there something I can do so that the PM5 keeps sight of the USB stick?
Mike - 61 HWT 183

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by vepjan » January 6th, 2019, 7:27 pm

I'll do my best to help. I think using USB key together with Ergdata might be causing trouble.
If you do not use Ergdata, does the pm5 still forget the USB key? If so, perhaps try another
USB key (there are many threads about USB key trouble) or check/upgrade the firmware on the PM5.
If you are not able to get any USB key to work without Ergdata, perhaps consider either of the following option:
Ergdata should remember the HR belt for you (mine does). The pm5 memory is big enough that you can
find and rerow at least 2 months worth of most recent rows, so the USB is not needed if you are the
only one using the machine.

I am currently using my machine the following way:
I have it hooked up to a PC and use the Concept 2 Utility to upload workouts to the logbook.
I just use the PM5 memory. Connecting HR every time is much simpler than what you are doing now.
Your setup could be simplified by not connecting to the TV and buying a phone mount from Concept 2 instead.

If Rowpro is only used for rowing preprogrammed workouts, then that functionality is still perfectly fine.
The only problem I am having with Rowpro currently is that the upload from Rowpro to the Concept 2
logbook is missing some of the stroke data. But if you use the Concept 2 Utility for that anyway, then I would
strongly consider upgrading to Rowpro 5. You could use the Trial version first, and if it works you could upgrade.

I personally preferred the logcard setup, and every now and again I consider "downgrading" to a PM4 when I see
one on Ebay. However, I like the backlight of the pm5 and will likely keep it for that.

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by Citroen » January 6th, 2019, 8:57 pm

Try a Verbatim Stick viewtopic.php?f=10&t=185114

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by MPx » January 7th, 2019, 2:03 pm

Thanks Vepjan and Dougie. I've been using a Verbatim Nano USB 2.0 16GB. I did know there have been issues with newer USB sticks and did see the linked post so have now ordered a Metal Executive. I hadn't realised that the known USB issues were around sporadic faults. As the stick formatted OK and let me save favorites and move workouts from the PM5 memory I thought it must be some other issue.

But I checked it out without the phone or anything else connected. Started the PM5. Inserted the USB. The menu then included USB log. Selected new row and put up 100m. Rowed the 100m and once I finished everything looked normal on the screen. I hit the menu key and got a sign not to remove the USB - then it went back to main menu and no longer recognised the USB (USB no longer appeared on the menus anywhere). So its definitely the way the PM5 is working with this USB. I'll test again when the new one comes in a few days....but I have to say I'm not hopeful - its like the PM5 function of going back to the main menu ends the session with the USB. Nevertheless there is a USB icon in the top title space of the PM5 so it knows something is there.

The PM5 is latest firmware (163) on 633 HW

Over the years I've lost some key workouts due to unexplained crashes that required reboots, blogs being removed without notice, and technology changes making things incompatible. As a result for some time I've been overly belt and braces - hence recording in RowPro on the log card and on the online log. I'm just trying to replicate the triplicate log with Ergdata, USB and Online log. But you're right of course, the risk is low and the loss hardly catastrophic in the scheme of things so I don't really need to do all three at every session!

My new Garmin Chest Belt is Ant+ not Bluetooth so Ergdata doesn't recognise it - I should have thought about that harder before buying! It seems it does have to be paired with the PM5 for every session (indeed after every time the PM switches off!). Doh!
Mike - 61 HWT 183

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by Citroen » January 7th, 2019, 2:19 pm

If you have a valid and usable USB stick, your paired ANT+ HR will be remembered on your USB stick.

It may be worth asking Concept2 whether they recommend running with a USB stick and Ergdata. I know you can't run a connected race with USB stick as last time I tried that it caused a hard crash on the PM5 (needed a biro reset).

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by vepjan » January 7th, 2019, 3:48 pm

Ergdata should also remember ANT+ HR belts unless the iOS version is different from the Android one.
Pair the phone with Pm5 and then pair the ANT+ HR belt with the PM5. Then Ergdata will ask you if you wish to save the
HR belt (that may happen after the row is over, and sometimes even during the row). After that you should not have to pair the HR belt every time.

If it does not work with the new USB key, I suggest contacting Concept 2.

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by MPx » January 7th, 2019, 7:31 pm

Thanks for those further thoughts guys.

Vepjan - one of the settings in Ergdata (iOS) is "bluetooth heart rate monitor" which I have set "off" - but I can see no other heart rate monitor setting.

In fact as I've never found bluetooth a very robust service, I tend to avoid it where possible ... to the extent that I connect the phone to the PM5 with a "Liverowing" cable rather than pairing over bluetooth. I wonder if that's putting another yet another variable in which is different to what most others experience?

If the Metal Executive USB memory does work continuously and does retain my Ant+ HR link I'll be 90% there and a happy chappy. So here's hoping!
Mike - 61 HWT 183

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by carlosr » January 8th, 2019, 12:39 am

I also have an Ant+ HR belt. You just need to pair your HR belt with the PM5. ErgData wont know about an HR belt but it will get the HR data from the PM5. It comes across in the per stroke data and you will see it graphed in the logbook along with pace and spm after syncing.

The PM5 remembers the belt every time (after turning on wireless under the more options menu).

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by rakserv » January 12th, 2019, 11:27 am

I can’t find the reference but my understanding is that for the PM5 concept2 says that you can only use:
ergdata
-OR-
usb stick

ErgData is supposed to remember your heart rate monitor, the app asks you if you’d like to remember the heart rate monitor the first time it connects. although rather inconveniently the remembered devices do not appear on the list of heart rate sensors.

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by bojam » January 15th, 2019, 7:05 am

Hi, I hope I have this right but the only reason you use the usb stick is to have a list of favourites. If so then ... I use just an android tablet or phone with Boatcoach ... as Boatcoach allows you to set up as many sessions as you want more than the 10 favourites the usb stick allows. Unfortunately Boatcoach is unavailable on iOs. But it also has a function similar to rowperfect's online feature can't say how well it works as I've never tried it.

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by carlosr » January 15th, 2019, 1:32 pm

If you have 5 or less "Favorites" you could copy them from the USB to the "Custom" list on that PM5 and they will be there permanently.

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by MPx » January 15th, 2019, 7:48 pm

Thanks for the extra thoughts chaps. I decided to email C2 for their take and got a helpful response from Will Spalding. He confirmed:

Rakserv, vepjan and others are correct if you put a USB stick in AND use Ergdata the PM5 is conflicted on where to write the results and tends to go wrong - so that's a can't do.

However, Will also put forward Carlosr's suggestion to use the custom list for at least 5 of my preferred sessions....and I've already done that. I actually had between 30 and 40 saved on RowPro but most are easy enough to enter as new rows so its just things like my warm up/cool down/and regular SS sessions that are nice to have quicker access to and the odd complex interval session like the 17 rep AWL Pyramid. I can manage on 5! But thanks for the Boatcoach idea Toby - although that's not really in the running for me as I've got no Android tech.

Most of Will's response was around suggesting pairing my PM5/iPhone over bluetooth rather than by the Liverowing cable. The way his response is written suggests that by using that method, my Ant+ HR belt will be remembered by the PM5 and/or Ergdata and I wont have to pair it manually every time. This is clearly the experience of you guys too! I haven't done that yet and need to do some experimentation with it. I've a bit of a downer on bluetooth - having found it very flakey wherever I have used it (phone in car, TV to soundbar, etc). If, in this application its reliable, then it would be good to get my HR remembered automatically - but it wont have to go wrong more than once or twice for me to revert to a wire and manually pairing the HR. Its still not clear to me why there would be a functional difference to the way the Ant+ HR link is recalled depending on whether the PM5 and iPhone are linked by bluetooth or cable - but if it is then it is!

The new USB stick still hasn't arrived yet (but I have had a boatload of email telling me its latest "status" - don't ya just love amazon!). I think when that's here, I'll set myself up as a user on it and have some more Favourite sessions available and just use it occasionally to back up the PM5 memory as vepjan suggested early on.
Mike - 61 HWT 183

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Re: Model D/PM5/Ergdata/iOS/Garmin/Memorystick

Post by KCBerg » January 25th, 2019, 1:20 pm

I have had nothing but problems with the PM 5 and the switch to memory sticks and bluetooth. I have just spent an hour trying to get a stick to work to update my monitor and finally gave up and used a cable. I

I have had two memory sticks that suddenly became "corrupted" and developed errors. I switched to the iPhone app, thought I put the workouts onto my online workout, only to find them non-existent. I can't upload the workouts stored on the PM 5 -- I can't select them and the upload button is grayed out. I don't have time or the desire to work around all the bugs and glitches.

Seriously wishing I still had my Model C with its PM 4.

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