Model D - PM3 vs PM5

[Cuba]

Considering buying my first rowing machine & looking for some help deciding between the PM5 & a second hand PM3.

I get that the PM5 is an updated version with new features (backlit, USB and so on...) but what I'd really like is some guidance on what the actual difference is for a user.

I can get a second hand PM3 for around £250 vs. £860 for a brand new PM5...so wondering is there really £610 worth of value in having those new features? I'm fortunate to have just got a tax rebate, so the £860 isn't unaffordable for me right now...so it's more a question of is it worth doing for that price differential?

Also, I'd appreciate any guidance in terms of the things I should be looking out for when I go and look at this PM3 (if that is the option I decide to take)...is £250 a reasonable price or is that way more than I should be paying? Are there any common issues that develop with these rowing machines over time? I.e. After 10 years do you need to replace parts at significant expense or anything like that?

Realise these might be quite basic questions, but I really don't know much about this kind of equipment. I did a Learn to Row course a few months back & fancy the idea of giving indoor rowing a real go. Having a rowing machine would also be useful to supplement my running training next season.

Thanks in advance for any help!!

[Citroen]

You can still get a new ergo with a PM3 while stocks last. But, do you really want a ten year old design with a 20 year old design for the logcard?

Buy the PM5 and stick firmly in the 21st century.

[Cuba]

Thanks for your contribution but doesn't feel like you've answered my question here...I'm asking about buying a second hand ergo with a PM3 vs. a brand new one with a PM5. Feels like you've basically told me not to buy a new ergo with a PM3 because the new monitor is much more advanced, while I get that, what I'm really asking are two questions:

1) Ignoring the monitor, are there likely to be any differences between a second hand Model D and a brand new ergo? (And off the back of that, what should I be looking out for when buying a second hand ergo)

2) Assuming the answer to the above is, the ergo is essentially the same (minus obvious wear and tear with a used ergo), what's the actual benefits to the PM5 to real users?

I should also say that the USB is pretty useless to me given I use my iPad for personal computing. Don't have a desktop & the only laptop I have access to belongs to my employer & since I work for a bank the security on the thing is so tight there's no way I could use a non-work USB in there.

Apologies for any ignorance here btw!!

[rakserv]

hello,
just an opinion mind you, but depending on the vintage of the used model D there may be some minor differences between the used ERG and a new one. the older model D's (http://www.concept2.com/service/indoor-rowers/model-d) had the same hinging mechanism and flex foot assembly as the model c. neither of these things really make much of a functional difference in the machine operation.

as far as i can tell, they are all built like tanks. unless the used model D has some fairly significant physical damage, it seems that the used would be the way to go. after all, if you decide later to upgrade to a new one, you can likely get most of your money back or more from reselling the used model D.

also, given the price difference between the two (used & new) you can probably buy the used one and get a PM5 upgrade for the used ERG and still remain ahead from a cost perspective.

[Bob S.]

Warning: One version of the model D had a design flaw and was prone to cracking. A check on the serial number can show if a particular machine is in the category, but I don't have the information on this. Perhaps another member can come up the the list of numbers for that version. C2 came out with a free kit to correct for this problem, so it is not a deal killer.

Bob S.

[rakserv]

Information on the Model D rowers with the issue is located here:
http://www.concept2.com/service/indoor- ... uct-notice

[jamesg]

second hand PM3 for around £250 vs. £860 for a brand new PM5

Presumably you mean complete machines, not just the monitor.

Get the best you can: more likely to do the job, more reliability and life, later version, less noise, guarantee if new.

If a used machine is complete, clean, dry, quiet, not rusty and the monitor works, you're not risking much and can always sell it on.

Very low drag is not a fault, the fan needs cleaning.

[TheSkee]

I also was looking for a used rower before Xmas, but couldn't find anything nearly as cheap as £250 - more like £400+ for Model C's with PM3. And even then still no guarnatee that the machine hadn't come from a gym where it had been abused during it's lifetime. I guess at this time of year there is going to be demand for them as rowers get forced off the water and people look to get fit in the New Year. Like has already been said, if you can stump up the money, buy the newest/latest model you can afford. Good luck!

[pkiszk]

I would get D/PM3 in his place. Assuming it is in working condition, but even if not , absent of some major issues, chain, roller can be replaced at low cost. This price is a bargain and if he likes rowing he can always buy pm5 alone. the key difference is inability to pair with Ant enabled heart straps in pm3. Otherwise, you will be hooking it up to RowPro and really care little about logcard or PM display save for its wattage numbers while rowing. i own a E/pm4 and skierg/pm5. Bought them new only due to lack or second hand options and commitment to rowing. I plan to get another one for my other location if I can get a good deal on a used one- I even consider model C.

[kayakr]

The second hand model is a good deal unless it's in rough shape.

[Carl Watts]

The PM3 is a great monitor, especially the post 2007 version as it was a complete redesign internally.

At the end of the day it depends on what you want to do, as someone else already pointed out if you have the likes of RowPro, then you hardly need the monitor at all it becomes a PC interface to pickup the tach signal and your heartrate.

Nothing wrong with the model C and PM2 combination either if its hardly been used, put a quiet kit (Model D chain, sprocket and shaft) in it and its like a Model D to row on.

Would not be jumping at a PM5 for a couple of years until the hardware/firmware has stabilised.

[ChrisPBacon]

Would not be jumping at a PM5 for a couple of years until the hardware/firmware has stabilised.

A couple of years, will it really take them that long to get it right? Ugh!

[jackarabit]

The PM3/D combo is reliable. The logcards work. The logcard reader or USB upload to C2 logbook still work. Analog chest belts (polar standard) all work with the old heart rate dongle; they don't have to be Polar brand. The year of manufacture is available right from the monitor as is total meters of use. Jack

[Carl Watts]

Would not be jumping at a PM5 for a couple of years until the hardware/firmware has stabilised.

A couple of years, will it really take them that long to get it right? Ugh!

The PM3 firmware never stopped evolving over the lifetime of the product, that's over 10 years for the early PM3 that first appeared in like 2003.

As pointed out its now a very stable product and runs pretty much faultlessly. For those people that don't want to have to play with hardware and just want to row without any form of connectivity problems, then yes I would be waiting for the "Beta Testers" to iron out all the problems. At least Concept 2 are doing things right and not coming out with a new model every year, products like this never get rid of the bugs before they are onto the next new one with another pile of bugs.

[Citroen]

Would not be jumping at a PM5 for a couple of years until the hardware/firmware has stabilised.

A couple of years, will it really take them that long to get it right? Ugh!

I'm sure Carl meant months not years.