What does this bug mean for indoor racing?

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jamesg
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Re: What does this bug mean for indoor racing?

Post by jamesg » November 10th, 2018, 11:10 am

What was the result? As far as can see, if the clock doesn't stop it just becomes a piece done at low rating, so what's the point?
08-1940, 183cm, 87kg. Last seen MHR 162, in 2k (2020-05-16) 8.47.5@24

ex1580
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Re: What does this bug mean for indoor racing?

Post by ex1580 » November 10th, 2018, 11:50 am

You can watch the video explanation here or read the original official response below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aDELD29Zxo

The bottom line is that it doesn't matter what mode you are in because it's not about the clock, it's about how it calculates the data on the screen. So you can get "good" numbers with a lot less work. That said, if you upload and try and rank a workout of less than 10 SPM they are watching for this and will invalidate it now which is good. Yay C2.

"There is a time limit, programmed into the monitor, of 6 seconds from the finish of a drive to the start of the next drive. A delay of more than 6 seconds signals the monitor that you have stopped rowing. (Among other things this allows a user to pause to take a drink or pull off a sweatshirt during a long row, and then continue the row). The monitor’s self-calibrating function uses the completed stroke cycle (drive, recovery, drive) to determine the drag factor to use in calculating the correct data you see on the monitor. Unfortunately, by pausing for 7 seconds before you start your next drive, the monitor assumes you have stopped rowing… and the monitor never “sees” a complete stroke (it determined you had stopped rowing before it could sense the end of your recovery). If the monitor never “sees” a complete stroke, the drag factor will not be correctly determined and the data displayed will not be correct.

In terms of getting a valid score, what are you are doing here is like painting “45” on your 25-pound weight plates…" - Peter Dreissigacker

jamesg
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Re: What does this bug mean for indoor racing?

Post by jamesg » November 10th, 2018, 5:54 pm

All that can only happen if the clock stops, as it does in Just Row. None of it can happen if the clock does not stop.
08-1940, 183cm, 87kg. Last seen MHR 162, in 2k (2020-05-16) 8.47.5@24

ex1580
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Re: What does this bug mean for indoor racing?

Post by ex1580 » November 10th, 2018, 8:13 pm

I did it with set time and distance workouts. I don't know what to tell you. I have updated my firmware since then. Being that the whole topic is cheating I'm not sure who races in just row mode. Peter says that by not completing a full stroke the machine can't calibrate properly and isn't displaying the right numbers. Nothing about that needs a clock.

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Re: What does this bug mean for indoor racing?

Post by Citroen » November 11th, 2018, 5:14 am

The simplest answer is to ensure ALL race organisers know about this feature and add an extra rule disqualifying anyone who attempts to use it to win their race.

There's some simple rules at http://www.crash-b.org/regatta/rules/ (which matches the ones published by Concept2 that I can't find right now on their website).

It's an extension of the "Charley Butt" rule.
Rowers may set the drag factor BEFORE their races begin, but may not adjust the setting during the race itself. Doing so will lead to disqualification. This is the Charley Butt rule.

ex1580
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Re: What does this bug mean for indoor racing?

Post by ex1580 » November 11th, 2018, 8:25 am

Yes, as long as race organizers, big and small, in person or virtual, are watching for this it can be prevented. Also, C2 needs to make it easier to update firmware, and do a better job of making people aware when firmware is out of date. If it is mindlessly easy more people will do it and it will be a better experience for all.

On a side note here is an interesting write-up on the physics of how the machine works and gets those numbers you see on the screen: http://eodg.atm.ox.ac.uk/user/dudhia/rowing/physics/

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