Us Indoor Rowing Team Selection

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 22nd, 2005, 2:46 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 21 2005, 09:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Nov 21 2005, 08:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>There are no mechanical aids in cycling or rowing.<br /><br />It is quite evident you have not done any competitive cycling, running, rowing, or swimming to know the differences and similarities among those activities. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thomas,<br /><br />You're almost as funny as Mike Caviston. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />If being funny is related to training intensity, then yes I am almost as funny as Mike Caviston.

[old] Thomas · Post by **[old] Thomas** » November 22nd, 2005, 2:47 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Nov 21 2005, 10:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 21 2005, 09:24 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(Thomas @ Nov 21 2005, 08:47 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>There are no mechanical aids in cycling or rowing.<br /><br />It is quite evident you have not done any competitive cycling, running, rowing, or swimming to know the differences and similarities among those activities. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Thomas,<br /><br />You're almost as funny as Mike Caviston. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br /><br />If being funny is related to training intensity, then yes I am almost as funny as Mike Caviston. <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />And you, John Rupp, are not very funny.<br />

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 22nd, 2005, 3:07 am

Thank you, Thomas!

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » November 22nd, 2005, 3:46 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Sure the selection is based, in part, on the merit of the trials. ("Have a fast 2k")<br />My guess would be that the other part goes something like this: "And not be a flaming crybaby arsehole!" </td></tr></table><br /><br />All after the fact Paul. My WR 6:29 trial in 2003 was just straight up, as was my preceding row WR row at WIRC 2003.<br /><br />I was complaining then? What was I complaining about? I was just excited about trying to make the team and worked my butt off to prepare.<br /><br />I am not complaining now. I am explaining. It is good to air the facts. I suppose I am also trying to defend the ethics of sports more generally and competitive indoor rowing more specifically.<br /><br />If C2 is just going to pick whoever they want ("friends" of C2, former rowing buddies, acquaintances of the C2 staff, local race officials who row, etc.) for the USIRT, then there is no reason to make out that application for the team is an athletic competition. There is no reason at all to have trials, standards, rules, regulations, etc. <br /><br />Clearly, C2 doesn't care that the members of the USIRT win at EIRC. They don't even seem to care if they row. They have no interest in a gold standard, etc. Clearly, they also don't even have any interest in sponsoring the best rowers. They have no interest in a % of WR standard, either. So what's the problem? Why don't they just pick some people they like before the fact and have a team: C2IRT? Why all the hoopla of claiming that it is a US inddoor rowing team, complete with invoking the flag, etc.? Why inconvenience most of the good indoor rowers in the country for their own amusement with having the power to devise standards, trials, "official" rules and regulations, etc. , just so that they can mold the results arbitrarily to fit their "company"/business purposes? <br /><br />ranger<br /> <br /><br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 22nd, 2005, 10:28 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 21 2005, 11:46 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Sure the selection is based, in part, on the merit of the trials. ("Have a fast 2k")<br />My guess would be that the other part goes something like this: "And not be a flaming crybaby arsehole!" </td></tr></table><br /><br />All after the fact Paul. My WR 6:29 trial in 2003 was just straight up, as was my preceding row WR row at WIRC 2003.<br /><br />I was complaining then? What was I complaining about? I was just excited about trying to make the team and worked my butt off to prepare.<br /><br />I am not complaining now. I am explaining. It is good to air the facts. I suppose I am also trying to defend the ethics of sports more generally and competitive indoor rowing more specifically.<br /><br />If C2 is just going to pick whoever they want ("friends" of C2, former rowing buddies, acquaintances of the C2 staff, local race officials who row, etc.) for the USIRT, then there is no reason to make out that application for the team is an athletic competition. There is no reason at all to have trials, standards, rules, regulations, etc. <br /><br />Clearly, C2 doesn't care that the members of the USIRT win at EIRC. They don't even seem to care if they row. They have no interest in a gold standard, etc. Clearly, they also don't even have any interest in sponsoring the best rowers. They have no interest in a % of WR standard, either. So what's the problem? Why don't they just pick some people they like before the fact and have a team: C2IRT? Why all the hoopla of claiming that it is a US inddoor rowing team, complete with invoking the flag, etc.? Why inconvenience most of the good indoor rowers in the country for their own amusement with having the power to devise standards, trials, "official" rules and regulations, etc. , just so that they can mold the results arbitrarily to fit their "company"/business purposes? <br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />This was not "after the fact" at the time, even then you had done your best to piss off a lot of folks in the forum, i.e. C2 customer community, as quickly as possible.<br /><br />If you can't recall the circumstances, I'm not going to rehash them.<br /><br />Let me give you a final piece of advice, I've got a pretty good record on it, even with you.<br /><br />Shut up and erg/row, you've lost your case.<br /><br />This Indoor rowing is "all about me" for every individual that loves it. That's why we like to hear of others successes and congratulate them on the accomplishment, then we go on, not spend time endlessly whining about what should have been, or being self congratulatory. Yeah, I know "It ain't bragg'in if you can do it.", but OTOH if you see someone bragg'in as if everyone hasn't heard it already, it's damn tiring, and no one cares.<br />

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » November 22nd, 2005, 11:46 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>This was not "after the fact" at the time, even then you had done your best to piss off a lot of folks in the forum, i.e. C2 customer community, as quickly as possible.<br /><br />If you can't recall the circumstances, I'm not going to rehash them. </td></tr></table><br /><br />The banter on this web line constitutes a pissed off C2 customer community? Come on, Paul. Most of our endless rantings back and forth in 2002 and 2003 on this forum were fun and innocent exchanges about training methods and performances; and as it turns out, most of the "pissed off" folks such as you and Caviston were just nay-sayers who turned out to be wrong in various ways, although certainly right in others, despite your experience with these matters. What did all of this amount to? A lot of sturm und drang where education (and frustration) went in both directions.<br /><br />So C2, protecting its own, disqualified my WR trial, after the fact, without informing me that I didn't qualify for the team in the first place for ad hominem or in house reasons, and put Caviston on the team, despite his full and equal complicity in the discussions and weaker trial, because of their desire to hold ranks, defend tradition, and nay-say with the rest of you, even if it turned out wrong?<br /><br />Yikes.<br /><br />I've seen some wierd stuff in my life, but this is one of the wierdest.<br /><br />ranger<br />

[old] FrancoisA · Post by **[old] FrancoisA** » November 22nd, 2005, 12:04 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 22 2005, 04:18 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Thomas,<br /><br />Comparing with cycling is more accurate.<br /><br />Both have the aid of a machine.<br /><br />Neither swimming nor running have any outside mechanical aid. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />John, once again, you are showing to the world that you are an unrepentant ignorant! <br /><br />Your lungs, heart and muscles are totally unconcerned as to what your are pushing and pulling.<br />Having practice extensively swimming, biking and running, I have to agree with Thomas that swimming is closest to rowing. More precisely, among all competitive swimming strokes, it is breaststroke that is closest to rowing, both because of the greater use of the legs and the longer "recovery".

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 22nd, 2005, 12:27 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 22 2005, 07:46 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>This was not "after the fact" at the time, even then you had done your best to piss off a lot of folks in the forum, i.e. C2 customer community, as quickly as possible.<br /><br />If you can't recall the circumstances, I'm not going to rehash them. </td></tr></table><br /><br />The banter on this web line constitutes a pissed off C2 customer community? Come on, Paul. Most of our endless rantings back and forth in 2002 and 2003 on this forum were fun and innocent exchanges about training methods and performances; and as it turns out, most of the "pissed off" folks such as you and Caviston were just nay-sayers who turned out to be wrong in various ways, although certainly right in others, despite your experience with these matters. What did all of this amount to? A lot of sturm und drang where education (and frustration) went in both directions.<br /><br />So C2, protecting its own, disqualified my WR trial, after the fact, without informing me that I didn't qualify for the team in the first place for ad hominem or in house reasons, and put Caviston on the team, despite his full and equal complicity in the discussions and weaker trial, because of their desire to hold ranks, defend tradition, and nay-say with the rest of you, even if it turned out wrong?<br /><br />Yikes.<br /><br />I've seen some wierd stuff in my life, but this is one of the wierdest.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Oh, I see. You are making this out to be that someone was "wrong", adn it certainly couldn't have been you. Please tell me exactly what I was wrong about, seriously I can't recall what that was, or could even be. Be specific, because you love to infer rather than state facts, much like your biggest supporter. I can't even recall being particularly pissed off myself, I did observe a lot of it at the time we are talking about.<br /><br />You seem to think there is some grand conspiracy against poor little you, and have some sort of personal bone of contention with MikeC. Pull up your big girl panties and get over it!<br /><br />Agreed, it's definitely strange stuff.

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » November 22nd, 2005, 12:52 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Oh, I see. You are making this out to be that someone was "wrong", adn it certainly couldn't have been you. Please tell me exactly what I was wrong about, seriously I can't recall what that was, or could even be. Be specific, because you love to infer rather than state facts, much like your biggest supporter. I can't even recall being particularly pissed off myself, I did observe a lot of it at the time we are talking about. </td></tr></table><br /><br />I am sure you remember. I don't have to review it for you.<br /><br /> <br /><br />So _this_ is how iit goes here: <br /><br />Don't do anything that surprises good-old-boy rowers; or if you do, don't talk about it here. Don't suggest different ways of training. Don't have different sorts of goals. Don't try to do anything they haven't done. <br /><br />If you talk about something different here and are told to shut up because you are wrong by a good-old-boy rower, immediately agree and give up both what you are doing and what you are saying or risk upsetting the rowing community, being attacked en masse, blacklisted, and having your achievements disqualified from (supposed) competitions, etc., run by this community, even if what you do and say turns out to be both right and effective.<br /><br />Wow.<br /><br />A bees nest. Obey the queen bee! Drones? Look lively! Get that work done!<br /><br />A small group of pioneers, facing the big world: <br /><br />Circle the wagons!<br /><br />ranger

[old] John Rupp · Post by **[old] John Rupp** » November 22nd, 2005, 12:56 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 22 2005, 08:27 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Please tell me exactly what I was wrong about, seriously I can't recall what that was, or could even be. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />We would need an entirely different forum for that! <br />

[old] PaulS · Post by **[old] PaulS** » November 22nd, 2005, 1:04 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 22 2005, 08:56 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 22 2005, 08:27 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Please tell me exactly what I was wrong about, seriously I can't recall what that was, or could even be. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />We would need an entirely different forum for that! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Doing what I can to avoid the nefarious "consecutive posting". <br /><br /><br />Ranger, <br /><br />So nothing? Figured that. There are very few "new things", just a bunch of stuff that has been done before. 'Those who fail to know history are doomed to repeat it', or I suppose they could take good advice and avoid pitfalls, as long as they didn't assume everyone was out to get them. <br /><br /><br /><br />John, <br /><br />It's difficult to express just how much that means, coming from you.

[old] PaulH · Post by **[old] PaulH** » November 22nd, 2005, 1:06 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Nov 21 2005, 03:27 PM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>The 4th estate is hard at work.<br /><br />C2, you are getting _very_ bad press. Be indifferent if you'd like. It's your choice.<br /><br />The Age of Information. Sometimes you just gotta love it.<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />You do realize that you're writing that on a board paid for by the evil, intolerant, arbitrary, unjust people who are oppressing the decent rowing-folk that you represent? Man, they're really going to have to brush up on their moustache twirling to make up for their obvious shortcomings as international super-villains!

[old] JimR · Post by **[old] JimR** » November 22nd, 2005, 1:31 pm

Ranger ...<br /><br />Is it possible that C2 simply doesn't want to be associated with you, no matter how good you might be? And given all that has been said might not be inclined to pick up the tab on the compant dime to take you somewhere? In that sense I gues maybe it is all about YOU ... no big conspiracy, they just want to keep some distance from you.<br /><br />It doesn't seem unprecedented, what with the T.O. situation in the NFL. At some point the pople with the money get to spend it on who they want. You aren't the only game in town, even if you might be the best.<br /><br />As far as your 4th estate logic, the analogy makes no sense. You are a person (I count John as a different person but not sure why) who has an opinion. You are free to state your opinion (repeatedly it seems) and defend your opinion. Others are free to rebut your opinion, ignore it or even ignore you. <br /><br />Say what you will ... but understand that your behavior can have consequences. If the consequences are not acceptable change the behavior.<br /><br />What seems very sad in all this is that it seems every year the run-up to the other big erg event outside the US the timetable will be something like this ...<br />1. someone starts thinking about the big race<br />2. someone starts posting about the big race<br />3. someone starts posting about who will be coming from the US with C2<br />4. C2 starts gearing up<br />5. John starts bringing up 2003<br />6. others start debating John (an oxymoron there)<br />7. you feel compelled to jump in the fray<br /><br />... and then EVERYONE is reminded all over AGAIN that Ranger was excluded in 2003 ...<br /><br />More a sad reflection of you and your perspective. Maybe at some point you can work through it?!<br /><br />JimR

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » November 22nd, 2005, 2:59 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Is it possible that C2 simply doesn't want to be associated with you </td></tr></table><br /><br />If that is true, and you may indeed be right, then they I think that C2 should have told me I was disqualified before I did a USIRT trial in 2003, rather than after, and they should have told me I was disqualified when I joined the USIRT this year, rather than waiting to do it after the fact. <br /><br />No need to "apply" again, I guess.<br /><br />I will certainly enjoy rowing at EIRC in the future, though, as I did in 2003. I have plenty of my own resources and can go on my own coin.<br /><br />I need to lower that 50s lwt EIRC record of mine. 6:32 is very soft. It wasn't a very good row at all.<br /><br />ranger

[old] ranger · Post by **[old] ranger** » November 22nd, 2005, 3:01 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(John Rupp @ Nov 22 2005, 11:56 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(PaulS @ Nov 22 2005, 08:27 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>Please tell me exactly what I was wrong about, seriously I can't recall what that was, or could even be. [right] </td></tr></table><br /><br />We would need an entirely different forum for that! <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />I'm afraid I agree with John on this one, Paul.<br /><br />You're response here is hilarious.<br /><br />ranger<br />

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