Runners Thread

[old] Calgary Rob · Post by **[old] Calgary Rob** » January 8th, 2006, 6:30 pm

Hi all, I've been reading this thread with interest for a while now, as I am a runner who also has a C2. I bought the C2 for those days when it's too crappy to run here, however if I only ever erg'ed on those days I would have hardly ever rowed I've been running on and off for years, but as I get older I find I'm becoming more susceptible to injury, so using the C2 has helped me along. During December I did the Holiday Challenge so didn't do any running, but since Jan 1st I've done three 8km and on 10km run (along with two 10km and one 7km ergs). I tend to do most of my training at "70% of WHR" for each discipline, which works out to 145 bpm for rowing, and 150 bpm for running. Currently my "70% of WHR" pace for rowing is 4:16/km and for running it's 4:35/km. So, it appears that erging is "easier" than running for me. I would like to hear how this is with others who erg and run. My favourite road running distance is 1/2M but my real passion is trail/mountain running, which is handy given where I live. Anyway, as I said, I enjoy reading the exploits of the erg/runners and will try and post regularly.

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » January 8th, 2006, 7:05 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Calgary Rob @ Jan 8 2006, 05:30 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I tend to do most of my training at "70% of WHR" for each discipline, which works out to 145 bpm for rowing, and 150 bpm for running. Currently my "70% of WHR" pace for rowing is 4:16/km and for running it's 4:35/km. So, it appears that erging is "easier" than running for me. I would like to hear how this is with others who erg and run. </td></tr></table> Rob, don't forget that rowing is generally about 5bpm less than an equivalent effort when running 70% of my WHR=130 and I know that at about 6:50-6:55 pace I am around 145bpm.So your 70% of WHR equates to about 7:20 mins/mile pace which is probably similar to mine. Regarding the trail running, that is something I was quite into and I have read quite a lot of Ultra magazines concentrating on the 100k and 100m races in the US - the Western States is one I seem to recall. Only today I have put my name down to form part of a team to run the Lyke Wake Walk in Yorkshire - 42 miles of moorland running in July. It will be quite an achievement but I think I can get myself fit enough if I don't get injuries.

[old] Calgary Rob · Post by **[old] Calgary Rob** » January 9th, 2006, 9:33 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(johnnybike @ Jan 8 2006, 04:05 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Calgary Rob @ Jan 8 2006, 05:30 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'> I tend to do most of my training at "70% of WHR" for each discipline, which works out to 145 bpm for rowing, and 150 bpm for running. Currently my "70% of WHR" pace for rowing is 4:16/km and for running it's 4:35/km. So, it appears that erging is "easier" than running for me. I would like to hear how this is with others who erg and run. </td></tr></table> Rob, don't forget that rowing is generally about 5bpm less than an equivalent effort when running 70% of my WHR=130 and I know that at about 6:50-6:55 pace I am around 145bpm.So your 70% of WHR equates to about 7:20 mins/mile pace which is probably similar to mine. Regarding the trail running, that is something I was quite into and I have read quite a lot of Ultra magazines concentrating on the 100k and 100m races in the US - the Western States is one I seem to recall. Only today I have put my name down to form part of a team to run the Lyke Wake Walk in Yorkshire - 42 miles of moorland running in July. It will be quite an achievement but I think I can get myself fit enough if I don't get injuries. </td></tr></table> Thanks Johnny, I used live in Bingley many years ago so your racing exploits interest me. My 10k pb of 39 mins was set in the Abbey Dash of 1992. If you're ever in Alberta you might want to try this race: <a href='http://members.shaw.ca/moosemountain/' target='_blank'>Moose Mountain</a> At 29k it's not too long, but boy did I find it hard going in the snow last year.

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » January 9th, 2006, 10:54 am

Yes Rob, now you mention I do recall you talking about the Abbey Dash. Bingley is a nice running area, all the South Pennines area is good for that. THey have a lot of shorter (5-8 mile) fell races in the area and you can race 3-4 times a week in summer if you wanted to with driving more than about 25 miles for a race. Just had a lunch-time run and wore my HR for a change. Pace was 7:04 mins per mile and AHR was 140 over 4.6 miles. Quads were agony though

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » January 12th, 2006, 10:39 am

Just read a report on the 2005 Lyke Wake race which is a 42 mile moorland race in Yorkshire, England. I think Yukon John, although accustomed to running barefoot in 2 feet of snow, in minus 10C conditions took on more than he could chew when he came to my side of the pond for a race A record entry of 112 people took part in this years Lyke Wake Race which I hadn’t done the for some considerable time. The day arrived and it was going to be hot, just how I like it. We started from the reservoir at Osmotherley, a little fast I thought. Two lady runners, Trevor Symmons, two PC’s and myself. Jackie (Trevor’s wife) met us at all the check points e.g. Carlton bank, Clay Bank, The Lion at Blakey etc. and did a first rate job! Trevor and I ran together to the railway line at Rosedale, after which I was on my own. Near "Fat Betty" I managed to sink up to my waist in a peat bog which gave me a cracking sun tan! After this I began to pick people off and ran relatively strongly throughout the race eventually arriving at Ravenscar in just under 8hrs and finishing 6th overall and first vet o/55. All the times were slower due to the temperature which remained high for the duration of the race. One chap from the Yukon became dangerously dehydrated but Mountain Rescue and the Police were on standby at all times

[old] Yukon John · Post by **[old] Yukon John** » January 12th, 2006, 5:56 pm

I think Yukon John, although accustomed to running barefoot in 2 feet of snow, in minus 10C conditions took on more than he could chew when he came to my side of the pond for a race

[/quote] You caught me by surprise here Johnny . I'm not doing much running these days, (this rowing thing seems to be getting in the way )but I'm sure I'll get the bug again. Twasn't me at the race (although I'd love to try it!) I must admit it could have been me, heat has given me troubles in the past. I do enjoy running out on the snowmobiles tracks in winter and it's nice because you don't have to worry about bears (I've had a couple of close calls in the summer.) Plus the tracks are firm enough to move at a good rate, yet soft enough for the joints. I have thought about doing a race here called the Yukon Arctic Ultra www.arcticultra.de/ Maybe next year, but if I did it it would be using a kicksled if it was warm enough and only going the marathon distance, not the 100 or 300 kilometer races. It seems like the north tends to warp people's good judgement and they come up with a lot of unusual races. I've done a few of them. They used to have one in Alaska called the Hope to Homer race. It was about 300 kilometers across the Kenai Peninsula (south of Anchorage.) The year I tried it we started with a 50 mile run, then we planned on crossing the Harding Icefield with skis and finally floating down a quick flowing stream in a rubber raft. We only got to the icefield which was in whiteout conditions. So myself and a friend decided (with blisters on our feet) that it made more sense to bag the race and have a few beer instead. Other "fun" races in the Yukon and Alaska that I have finished (some of them several times) include The Crow Pass Crossing, which is 28 miles long and has a 4000 ft. elevation gain and a large glacier fed river crossing about half way through (the disclaimer for the race is halarious with the dangers listed; bears, whiteout conditions, etc., about a page long!) Then there is the Equinox Marathon in Fairbanks AK. I've heard it is the 2nd hardest marathon in North America (next to the Pike's Peak Marathon.) Not one you would want to try and get a PB on! And finally the Yukon Trail Marathon, not as tough as the other races and through beautiful scenery, but again not one to PB on. We also have a great event here called the Trail on 98 Klondike Road Relay. It's about 120 miles long, run with teams of 10, and goes from Skagway Ak to Whitehorse Yukon. There is usually somewhere around 150 teams (1500 people.) It starts in the evening and finishes the next day around noon. You do it with a support vehicle following you to light the way. It works out well unless the driver falls asleep and their foot pushes on the gas! There are other events with other activities too including the Tour De Whitehorse and another team event race from Haines Jct., Yukon to Haines, Alaska (a team bike race over 150 miles.) And there are mega long ski races, bathtub races, and an event that Joe Bishop on the Eh Team has done well on called the Yukon River Quest, listed as the longest Canoe race in the world (from Whitehorse to Dawson City, takes about 3 straight days to finish.) So, if you want to put yourself in a lot of pain for long periods of time, come over for a visit and choose your "fun."

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » January 12th, 2006, 6:21 pm

h*** John, that is an awesome list of events. As you said, the conditions must cause madness to set it when dreaming up events. I looked at a few of them and I was disapointed to see that they are not running the Artic Ultra over the full distance of 460 miles until 2007. I do not see any point in entering the sprint event (320 miles) in 2006 It sums it all up when you go past Dog Grave Lake, sounds a bit ominious. The YAU is a nice site but why is it hosted in Germany and the race info is available in German or English? There also seems to be a lot of British and Irish runners in the longer events.

[old] Yukon John · Post by **[old] Yukon John** » January 12th, 2006, 6:41 pm

The YAU is a nice site but why is it hosted in Germany and the race info is available in German or English? There also seems to be a lot of British and Irish runners in the longer events.

[/QUOTE] If a runner was to come all the way from Europe it makes sense to do the long distance event (I guess? ) maybe it would be a little more leisurely? I'm not sure about the race set up. I know there are locals here who have set up the race before and can be contacted for more info. It could be that there are more British and Irish runners in the event because the locals might know how much "fun" it would be . I think the locals could be more interested in the marathon distance because it's still a challenge and they can still go back to work on Monday. But then again, we might just be a bunch of wimps .

[old] Yukon John · Post by **[old] Yukon John** » January 12th, 2006, 6:55 pm

I missed one other race that is an adrenaline lovers dream. It's called the Mt. Marathon run <a href='http://www.sewardak.org/news-events/mar ... rathon.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.sewardak.org/news-events/mar ... hon.htm</a> and is a mixture of running, putting your hands on your thighs and pumping your legs (most of the uphill) and running down scree slopes (sometimes 5 metres at a time!) and negociating a small cliff at the bottom. Often at the start of the decent you can glissade down a snow slope. Once you get off of the cliff you get to run through a crowd of 10,000+ spectators with legs that feel like overstretched rubber. I cracked the top 10 in the race one year (many years ago!)

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » January 12th, 2006, 7:16 pm

Looks an interesting race. You would probably like the fell races over here. Top 10 finish is good going. I know what you mena about leaning on the thighs when trying to climb up, they feel like they are going to explode don't they.

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » January 17th, 2006, 10:47 am

Just had my a* kicked big time on my lunch-time run. There is a lad about 26 who runs a bit and we went out for a 4 mile run. I thought 27 mins would be good but he had other ideas and went at it from the start and I was 50 yards off him before I had got into my stride. He kept going well and I hung for 2 miles plus but I started to tire and he ended up with a 25:20 time and I hung on for 26:19. Much harder run than I wanted but overall I am quite pleased with my running as I am only in the 3rd week of training after injury.

[old] Yukon John · Post by **[old] Yukon John** » January 18th, 2006, 7:52 pm

You may have already discussed this (to lazy to read back .) But how do you find the mix of running / erging. I know the more specific the better in terms of the speed of contractions, forces applied, angles of the muscles and all that. So it's probably more beneficial to spend more time on the activity that you want most to improve on, but do you see a lot of benefits to this cross-training (for either sport?) I'm trying to decide of I want to get back into either running or cycling since the days are getting longer. I haven't done these activities with erging, so any thoughts on the mix would be appreciated. Thanks, John.

[old] Calgary Rob · Post by **[old] Calgary Rob** » January 18th, 2006, 11:21 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'>QUOTE(Yukon John @ Jan 18 2006, 04:52 PM)</div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'>But how do you find the mix of running / erging. </td></tr></table> Hi John, This year I'm alternating running and erging. My knees won't take too much running, but I like it so I'll as much as they'll allow and erg to make up the mileage. I'm finding it tiring at the moment.

[old] johnnybike · Post by **[old] johnnybike** » January 19th, 2006, 5:37 am

John,Rob, I am finding running and erging a wondrous (is that hyperbole) mix. Both are very good for CV workouts and both exercise the legs intensively. I find they compliment each other very well with rowing working my quads much more than running does. I feel the benefits of rowing on the uphill sections, especially off road where the pace and stride length gets more erratic to fit the terrain. On the negative side my calf muscles feel quite 'heavy' a lot of time during either or both disciplines, primarily running. The main benefit is that it is allowing to me perform 2 work-outs most mid-week days without becoming over-tired or bored. I tend to run at lunch-time and erg in the evening. Jim Barry discussed a form of training recently, (I forgot the name but it might be mentioned somewhere on this thread, I will check) that recommended hard sessions but using the cross-training approach. I concur with that approach as that is what I am doing effectively. In the last 3 weeks since not running for 2 months I have managed to put in 20-25 mpw, including 2 race pace runs, a couple of long walks and a lot of rowing and I still feel fresh and motivated. My experience of injuries pre erging days tells me that I would have been exausted on the running alone by this stage never mind anything else. I would like to fit in more bike time and even some weights although I must admit I am a bit adverse to that sort of thing. However time does not permit that. I think for a true cross-training balance then maybe 3 sports should be combined rather than just the two but overall I am very pleased with the benefits I am getting from running and erging in parallel.

[old] Yukon John · Post by **[old] Yukon John** » January 19th, 2006, 8:03 pm

Thanks Johnny, I'm sold! I'm toying with the idea of doing a 5k erg race on Saturday and a easy run and erg on Sunday. We're sitting about -25C at the moment and although that can be a nice temp. to run in, I'm feeling a bit whimpy (It's supposed to warm up to -4C by the weekend.) It's funny, I used to think nothing of going out for 2 hour runs at -30 or colder and used to do a lot of cold weather mountaineering. Now a days the drive isn't there. But who knows after Sunday . . . . At the beginning of February, I'll probably set up a wind trainer and do some easy cycling too. I'm going to see if I can find the information you mentioned by Jim Barry. Thanks for the tip (and the motivation!) Y-John.

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