Intervals: 8x500 V. 16x250

[[old] NavigationHazard]

Zatopek's 28:54 10k works out to 69.36/400m. <br /><br />If he really did rip off his long strings of intervals in 70s while wearing army boots -- and such stories have a habit of growing in the retelling -- he was training at world-record race pace given optimum track conditions. <br /><br />I strongly suspect his workouts were rather slower.<br /><br />As for the general effect of army boots on time, I once knew a 4:20/mile HS runner named John Geary who showed up at the last second for a 2-mile leg of a 24-hr relay while wearing the things. Since he had no time to change his footwear, he ran the leg in surplus boondockers in around 10:30, as I remember it. This was about 45 or 50 seconds slower than he otherwise would have done, i.e. 6 or 7 seconds/lap.

[[old] starboardrigged1seat]

<!--QuoteBegin-ranger+Feb 17 2005, 05:13 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(ranger @ Feb 17 2005, 05:13 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->All of this chatter about Zatopeks is pretty humorous. All I hear, really, is a lot fear--fear of working hard, fear of testiing your limits, fear of facing your limitations, fear of facing reality!<br /><br />If this is your attitude, then good luck with rowing, especially erging.<br /><br />As Paul Hendershott likes to say, the erg is a truth machine.<br /><br />It might be time to assess who is lying to whom. IMHO, you folks are lying to yourselves!<br /><br />Yikes, just do the forking workout! It doesn't do you any good to keep telling me that I can't, didn't, shouldn't, etc. Find out for yourselves where you are in your foundational rowing. My guess is that it might not be too pretty to behold.<br /><br />I expect self-delusion from an 18-year-old, so this note is not really addressed to the loudest voice on this thread. 18-year-olds all lie to themselves; they are the unparalleled masters of self-delusion. I should know. I have three children, all of them in and around 18 years old!<br /><br />ranger <br /> </td></tr></table><br /><br />Ranger. I have come close (about 3 seconds) to your 2k score, in the last two thousand meters of the first piece of a 3 x 3k workout. Aside from that, I haven't pulled a 2k in close to a year (6:34) -- so there is no doubt that I could <i>row</i> 6:28 if I rested and prepared for it. I have done 40 minute rows at below a 1:50 at a 20 rating on a regular basis. I regularly row for 60 to 80 minutes, and do interval workouts. Thus, I think it's fair to say that our fitness levels are relatively close. I have offered an article from a reputable source -- please read my post with the link -- that gave the parameters -- "well below 5k and 10k pace" -- for the intervals. I never attacked you or your accomplishments, or how you face reality...merely questioned a single workout that you have so far given several different versions of (40 x 250 at 2k, 40 x 500m at 2k +2, batches of 500m sprints, etc). So please, next time before attacking me or my conception of reality, or telling me I'm afraid of hard work, give some basis for this workout grounded in fact. Thanks.

[[old] Xavier]

I think everyone needs to chill out a little bit.<br /><br />As for the topic of the thread: personally I feel that the 8x500m session won't necessarily make you faster over 2k - you'll just get better at the session the more often you do it.<br /><br />16x250m, well it depends how you pace it. If you use a rolling start then a higher percentage of the overall work is already going to be faster than the 8x500m at a corresponding speed.<br /><br />Xav

[[old] John Rupp]

<!--QuoteBegin-starboardrigged1seat+Feb 17 2005, 09:14 AM--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE(starboardrigged1seat @ Feb 17 2005, 09:14 AM)</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I think it's fair to say that our fitness levels are relatively close. <br /> </td></tr></table><br />It is easy to check your relative levels of performance.<br /><br />What is your weight?<br /><br />Check the PAT tables, and this will show how your time compares to Ranger's 6:28.0 for the 2k.

[[old] John Rupp]

Interview with Emil Zatopek.<br /><br />How method was started:<br /><br />"In competition my best (400) time was 53.7. I tried 6 times, then 10 times, then more and more. Nurmi, my idol, was always an inspiration. He showed the way. And I saw that it was possible to go farther with it. I wanted to practice something new with this highly intensive etraining and learn something new."<br /><br />Times for fast intervals (asked about 50x 400m in 60 seconds each):<br /><br />"Oh, no (laughs). Never! Between a minute and a half and two minutes. But I never used a stopwatch."<br /><br />Where training was done:<br /><br />"In the woods outside Prague. I marked off a 400 meter straight stretch that I used for the intervals. At each end I would make about a 150 meter circular recovery jog and then -- Drrrrrr! -- 400 meters again. I didn't know any athletes who did the same. I preferred to run in the woods because the ground is soft and the track is hard. I often had pain in the knees on the track."<br /><br />Description of style:<br /><br />"It was not good. I was not talented for speed, and only with my hard will I tried to win. <br /><br />How training developed:<br /><br />"I was always oriented to quality training, to be diligent, diligent, not to be lazy. <br /><br />After Helsinki:<br /><br />"I was getting older. I was over 30 and losing speed, but I wanted to run a new world record in the 5000 meters. So I ran in the morning 50 times 400 and the same again in the evening. It was horrible. I was trying with quantity to reach some quality. It is not the best method. And the last week before competition I returned to the track. Then I went to Paris and broke the 12 year old record of Gundar Hagg by one second.<br /><br />How the sessions were run:<br /><br />"In sets of 10. The first set was fast but easy -- the nerves are playing with the muscles. The next was fast and intensive like competition, then fast and easy again because, if nerves are tired, then everything will be slow. The fourth set was fast and intensive again. I would think, "Now I am in the 5000 meter final in Helsinki." The final set would be fast but easy. The change in intensity stimulates the nerves."<br /><br />Tactics:<br /><br />"My tactic was very primitive -- to run, to run and to be first at the tape. It is necessary to say that with this hard will it is possible to run good results, and it is not necessary to be afraid of fatigue. Fatigue and pain are sometimes an illusion. It is possible to run and not sink into this barrier of pain. It is the best reason to run. And this model activity wins against painful passivity."<br /><br />Overcoming lack of talent.<br /><br />"I was only able to get quality through quantity training."

[[old] ranger]

<!--QuoteBegin--><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><div class='genmed'><b>QUOTE</b></div></td></tr><tr><td class='quote'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Thus, I think it's fair to say that our fitness levels are relatively close. </td></tr></table><br /><br />Sounds as though you are in fine shape indeed. Congratulations on that. Of course, the trainiing targets you cite might be a little harder to hit when you are 54, but I don't think this matters all that much. Yes, you know about rowing and are significantly accomplished.<br /><br />If so, then you should be able to do the Zatopeks pretty easily. So, why not give them a try? You might like them.<br /><br />The Zatopeks are just long fartlek workouts. They don't need justification. Lots of athletes do fartleks, in many sports. These aren't quality intervals; they are considerably slower (or abbreviated). As I mentioned, the Zatopek 500s are about six seconds per 500 slower than I would row 500s in an 8 x 500m workout. Six seconds per 500m is a lot. <br /><br />There is nothing mythical or magical about the Zatopeks. Yes, they can indeed be done. I have done them. In fact, maybe I'll do some Zatopek 500s tomorrow morning. If I decide to do this, I'll report back to the forum on the result. I haven't done Zatopeks at low drag and with the new technique I have been using lately, but I am at the point in my training when Zatopeks are exactly appropriate. <br /><br />If we just take the things that are right/true in what you are saying, I guess I just don't get your objection to the workout (or why you are so hot and bothered about it).<br /><br />ranger

[[old] ranger]

BTW, when I was doing Zatopek 500s a couple of years ago and rowing at high drag (200 df.?), as I remember, I jazzed the stroke rate to 36-38 spm (and therefore lightened up my stroke to 9-10 SPI) to save energy. This was fine in order to get through the workout but not very good, I think, for my 2K or my technique more generally.<br /><br />Now, I would do the Zatopek 500s at 26-28 spm (114 df.). Big difference. These 500s maintain (above?) 2K stroking power (12-13 SPI) and therefore are directly, rather than just obliquely, relevant to my 2K and my general stroking power and efficiency. <br /><br />ranger