Strapless

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xone13
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Strapless

Post by xone13 » February 10th, 2009, 1:46 pm

Is there a video of how to row strapless? I am new and read around the forum that it helps improve form. Whenever i try to row strapless i end up with my feet almost out of the holder. A video would be a great help.

Hahndo
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Post by Hahndo » February 11th, 2009, 12:43 am

Well, this might not be the best video. But, I just received a copy of the "Concept2 - Technique and Use" DVD. And one of the members of the Oarsome Foursome was showing this as a way to use good form when rowing. The best part is that you can order this from concept2 for free,

concept2.com/us/indoorrowers/brochure_request.asp

Sorry, but you will need to put the 3 w's in front of the link.

Montanaandy
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Rowing Strapless

Post by Montanaandy » February 11th, 2009, 4:04 pm

I have been rowing strapless for quite some time now but I did have the same problem that you did initially but I have found a way to correct it for the most part. As per the videos, I try to angle my back at the "11 oclock" position at the end of the drive (body lean at the 11 on a clock with 12 being vertical). This keeps the feet pretty well on the footrest. I found that I was leaning back too far and my feet would be off the footrest. Sometimes I will lapse and when I concentrate on the 11 oclock positioning it seems to correct things. Hope this helps.

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michaelb
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Post by michaelb » February 11th, 2009, 4:06 pm

I am not sure this is something you will see on video; it is something you will have to feel (or learn to feel). But if your feet are falling off at the end of the drive that is a very good reason to learn to row strapless. This does indicate that there are probably lots of other issues going on that watching video can help, so it is worth finding some and watching them. I will try to remember to come back and post some links (Xeno does not row strapless, but he is to me the best looking rower out there, so going to his website and watching his demos will help).

In any case, on rowing strapless, the key may be to just keep at it, and commit to it. If you can't handle that, and I couldn't, rowing "straps loose" for a few weeks will help to start breaking the dependence on the straps at the finish and the recovery.

In the end you need to engage more quickly at the start of the drive, and finish in balance (so you don't fall back) and work on getting your hands away and your hips rotating to recover.
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13

tdekoekkoek
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Re: Rowing Strapless

Post by tdekoekkoek » February 11th, 2009, 4:52 pm

Montanaandy wrote: As per the videos, I try to angle my back at the "11 oclock" position at the end of the drive (body lean at the 11 on a clock with 12 being vertical). This keeps the feet pretty well on the footrest. I found that I was leaning back too far and my feet would be off the footrest.
Is this really what the videos were indicating? You should be opening up the back at the end of the drive to about a 1 oclock position. Now to keep from falling off, you have to really engage the abs to keep a nice upright (but with some lean) position. 11 oclock would mean you are slumping forward to keep your feet on and this would be counterproductive.
Trevor de Koekkoek: 46yrs, 190lbs

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Bob S.
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Re: Strapless

Post by Bob S. » February 11th, 2009, 8:50 pm

xone13 wrote:Is there a video of how to row strapless? I am new and read around the forum that it helps improve form. Whenever i try to row strapless i end up with my feet almost out of the holder. A video would be a great help.
What is your stroke rate? There should be no problem whatsoever at 20 spm or lower. For 30 spm and up most rowers still need to use the straps. For intermediate rates, i.e. in the mid twenties, it is more or less technique dependent. If you try it out first at a low rate and gradually increase the rate, you should be able to get the proper feel. It is mostly a matter of the legs, back, arms sequence. If you are still pushing with your legs at the end of the drive, it will result in the seat, with your body on it, having too much momentum. If your legs are properly down before you start your arm pull, there will be much less momentum left because the seat and most of your weight will have come to a stop. If you use an exaggerated layback, there might still be trouble because that would increase the amount of momentum left at the end of the drive. As mentioned, about 15 degrees beyond vertical is enough.

Bob S.

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Post by Nomugie » February 11th, 2009, 9:23 pm

I row strapless for everything other than intervals. When I started, I found it took me a while to get used to it. But when I slowed down (both rate and pace originally) enough and focused on keeping my feet in the stirrups my form got better. Now I can do some strapless "power" strokes... B)

Temporary hijack. Hey Trevor, how's your training going? Are you on track for the Bs?

Emily

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michaelb
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Post by michaelb » February 11th, 2009, 11:21 pm

Here is coach PaulS, who has championed strapless rowing on the forums and is the person I think many of us credit with the idea:

http://www.invernessrowingclub.co.uk/pe ... /paul.html

He is not looking his best, and my vague memory is that he shot this video for some other reason to show to one of his athletes, but it is all we have.

This is the classic Xeno video. If you look like this you are doing fine. Xeno sells DVDs that show rowing technique and they have gotten great reviews (I have seen the first and it is pretty good).

http://www.invernessrowingclub.co.uk/pe ... o_erg.html
M 51 5'9'' (1.75m), a once and future lightweight
Old PBs 500m-1:33.9 1K-3:18.6 2K-6:55.4 5K-18:17.6 10K-38:10.5 HM-1:24:00.1 FM-3:07.13

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Post by grams » February 14th, 2009, 12:10 pm

Re leaning back too far. Add a small 'shoulder shrug' at the end of the handle pullback allows you to slow down and still provide power to the handle. Folks at the erg class I took said that the muscles used in the shrug add a lot of strength to the handle pull, and you don't lean back too far.

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Atorrante
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Re: Strapless

Post by Atorrante » June 25th, 2010, 9:12 pm

Row strapped or strapless, it really doesn't matter if you are enjoying your workout, burning a lot of calories and improving your health. I have been rowing for six years and personally prefer to row strapped all the time. Have tried the strapless thing but sincerely don't enjoy it as much. May be it is a good training aproach to better your form and your times, but that is not my main reason to erg. It is to have another great form of cardio tool to better my health.
54 years young, 5'7"
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Carl Watts
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Re: Strapless

Post by Carl Watts » June 26th, 2010, 3:17 am

Always row strapped in here, straps fairly loose. Would not do my PB's unless strapped in and certainly strapped in for the 500M. If the chain parts company for any reason while pulling hard and your not strapped in then your going to fly off the back of the Erg.
Carl Watts.
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Citroen
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Re: Strapless

Post by Citroen » June 26th, 2010, 4:22 am

Carl Watts wrote:If the chain parts company for any reason while pulling hard and your not strapped in then your going to fly off the back of the Erg.
That's not true. I had a machine where the clutch failed and let the chain go loose while I was rowing strapless - didn't go off the back.

Strapless is good for learning lower rates and for learning to use hamstrings to fold legs rather than calves to haul back up the rail.

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Re:

Post by Godfried » June 26th, 2010, 3:08 pm

michaelb wrote:Here is coach PaulS, who has championed strapless rowing on the forums and is the person I think many of us credit with the idea:

http://www.invernessrowingclub.co.uk/pe ... /paul.html

He is not looking his best, and my vague memory is that he shot this video for some other reason to show to one of his athletes, but it is all we have.

This is the classic Xeno video. If you look like this you are doing fine. Xeno sells DVDs that show rowing technique and they have gotten great reviews (I have seen the first and it is pretty good).

http://www.invernessrowingclub.co.uk/pe ... o_erg.html
I looked again at the video today and did not like to click all the time.

So I took the liberty to add some code, see Paul or Xeno erg or Xeno water.

Press 'loop' to start , 'stop' to stop. :mrgreen:

Have fun.

Tinus
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Re: Strapless

Post by Tinus » June 26th, 2010, 4:05 pm

Rowing strapless or not, is a matter of either changing momentum by means of the force on the hands or by means of force on the feet. It is difficult to see this on video as it is not really a matter of posture. Except when done wrong but this is not inherent to rowing strapless. Proper strapless rowing should look much like strapped rowing (otherwise it wouldn't be a good general exercise to improve strapped rowing).

- Using the feet may help you waste less time. The feet allow you to alter speed more quickly and make a faster recovery which is just a necessary obstruction to apply most power possible to the flywheel.
- Using the hands may help you waste less energy. During the drive a lot of energy goes into the acceleration of the body. At the end this energy must be lost for the rower to be able to return and make the recovery. If the speed of the body is decelerated by using the straps then a lot of this energy will be wasted. A lot energy could have been useful in accelerating the flywheel by allowing the chain and the flywheel to apply force on the body and, while applying this force, decelerate the body and accelerate the flywheel.

None of these two are better form then the other. They need to be optimised simultaneously. But, if you do consider rowing strapless then you need to know that it should be the force on the hands which decelerates the body in this case. If you don't let this force decelerate the body then you will fall of the seat. The rower should push less strong on the footboard and/or pull more strong on the handle at the end of the stroke when rowing strapless.

- Rowing strapless helps improving force from the arms and prevent pulling on the straps too much (e.g. pulling even before the stroke has ended or starting the recovery with the entire body instead only trunk arms.).
- Rowing strapless does not help with everything and could be detrimental if not performed with care (It is not for nothing that rowing at high frequency and/or speed requires straps. Using the straps is useful and is, in this way, a part of proper technique). After the release (furthest point of the handle) connection with the flywheel is lost and there is no way to add momentum towards the next catch by means of pulling on the handle (except for making use of the small force from the elastic cord). So, at the release the body already needs high momentum towards the footboard (if one does not wish to move slowly). This requires the body to be pulled towards footboard while the handle still moves towards the body. The result is a shorter stroke and less effective use of the length of the body. (Also note that accelerating the body by means of the handle instead of the straps does not fall under the argument of preventing a waste of kinetic energy. Using the handle is only positive in this aspect during the deceleration.)

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Re: Re:

Post by Alissa » June 29th, 2010, 6:33 pm

Godfried wrote:
michaelb wrote:Here is coach PaulS, who has championed strapless rowing on the forums and is the person I think many of us credit with the idea:

http://www.invernessrowingclub.co.uk/pe ... /paul.html

He is not looking his best, and my vague memory is that he shot this video for some other reason to show to one of his athletes, but it is all we have.

This is the classic Xeno video. If you look like this you are doing fine. Xeno sells DVDs that show rowing technique and they have gotten great reviews (I have seen the first and it is pretty good).

http://www.invernessrowingclub.co.uk/pe ... o_erg.html
I looked again at the video today and did not like to click all the time.

So I took the liberty to add some code, see Paul or Xeno erg or Xeno water.

Press 'loop' to start , 'stop' to stop. :mrgreen:

Have fun.
Very kind of you, but even with the original, you don't need to "click all the time" :) Just hold the arrow key (on your keyboard) down, and the animation will play through without pause. :D

Alissa

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