Fast Boats

No, ergs don't yet float, but some of us do, and here's where you get to discuss that other form of rowing.
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Edward4492
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Fast Boats

Post by Edward4492 » April 24th, 2017, 10:30 pm

Those of you who read my posts know that I recently (last season) learned to scull. I'm coming up on my first 1000k OTW and would describe myself as competent(which may be a little generous). I purchased a used (1997) Pocock 1x which is turning out to be an excellent boat for me. It's easy to balance, very stable, and I'm making quick progress in it. Goes with out saying that I have a lot of time to be had by improving my skills, but as a matter of curiosity how much difference does the boat itself actually make? Right now I can do 500m at 2:15 I think by the end of the summer I'll be able to do 1000m at 4:30. But that would seem to be my absolute best. And that's not a very competitive time for a 60+ LWT master. I read in one of the posts that for a skilled rower OTW 1k times are about 15-20s slower than erg scores. My 1000m erg is 3:26 (recent), so I'm well over a minute off my anticipated OTW time. Would this be due to the fact that I have a very wide chasm between my erging ability and times (which I
consider very competitive) and my raw inexperience OTW?

But my real question....are there in reality boats which are much faster?

sander
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by sander » April 25th, 2017, 2:53 am

No. There are not. Unless you currently row in a very wide, coastal boat, as long as you buy a decent racing single of any brand, at your skill level there will be very little differences. It may even be so that a slightly heavier boat is faster for you than one that is exactly at the FISA minimum weight.

You say that your current boat is easy to balance and you are making quick progress. I would stick with that boat, as long as you keep it in good maintenance it can serve you well.

My OTE 1k time is 3:19 and my OTW times vary from 3:39 to 4:15 depending on wind, waves, the strength of the competition, water temperature, etc. In terms of magnitude of the effect, I would say the ranking is:

1. Fitness - raw power
2. Rowing Technique - being efficient with your power
3. Boat rigging - optimize (2)
4. Boat - the last 1% of the optimization

So you can hammer around and as long as you have excellent fitness you can still be quite competitive on the water (although this may be harder for lightweights). Then work on your technique and make sure that your boat is rigged in such a way that you get the maximum boat speed for your power.

Welcome to the OTW world!
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Edward4492
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by Edward4492 » April 25th, 2017, 3:36 pm

Thanks Sander, you pretty much confirmed what I figured was the case. I haven't learned to dig as deep in the boat as I do on the erg. Just a matter of putting in the work. At my skill level technique is probably where I can find the next 10-15s. It sure is fun!

PaulG
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by PaulG » April 26th, 2017, 12:19 pm

sander wrote:No. There are not. Unless you currently row in a very wide, coastal boat, as long as you buy a decent racing single of any brand, at your skill level there will be very little differences.
Welcome to the OTW world!
Just to expand a little on what Sander said, for a given skill level aerobic capacity is paramount. However, when you first start out, your skill level is so low that you can't use all your aerobic capacity. It took me two summers to be able to put full pressure on my oars, and that was in a wide open water boat! I still remember my fist disastrous row. Looking back I'm pretty sure I had at least one oarlock reversed.

So, for beginners, skill is most important. As you get more skill, aerobic capacity becomes most important.

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jackarabit
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by jackarabit » April 26th, 2017, 1:06 pm

Looking back I'm pretty sure I had at least one oarlock reversed.
The few that avoided the gate fwd goof probably had their nannies for coach.
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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Edward4492
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by Edward4492 » April 26th, 2017, 2:37 pm

Yup, done that once or twice. And the port/ starboard oar reversal. Paul, I'm with you 100%. I noticed it at the end of last season when my erg times had tanked; I never really re-covered the speed on the erg. After 1000k I'm just starting to get to where I can do some hard pieces OTW. Like you said, I'm thinking another full season before I can go at racing speeds. I am noticing that I can hit the quad fairly hard; also I can get some decent pieces on calm, flat water in my 1x. It's actually pretty encouraging seeing the possibilities for improvement and better times.

Cyclist2
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by Cyclist2 » April 27th, 2017, 1:32 pm

Edward, you are making me pine for another boat!

I went through your current learning curve about 30 years ago. My first boat (hourly rental) was a Maas Aero. I progressed through a heavy fiberglass generic thing at the club I joined, then found an Owen shell hanging in the boat house that the owner generously let me wipe the years worth of dust off and use. That was the boat I really progressed in because it was stable, sleek and light - not a top line racing shell but something I felt very comfortable in. That's the key. I got pretty competitive, especially in the longer head races.

I bought a Pocock teardrop single when I moved here. I restored it (that was fun) and was able to row it, but it was so tippy that I couldn't go out on anything but mirror-like days, and never got anywhere near the speed that the boat was capable of, fitness or not. I sold it to a guy who rows it in almost open water, so it was my skill level, not the boat.

My last boat was back to the Maas Aero, which I could row on Puget Sound, not worry about bigger waves or wakes and got a hell of a workout. Not racing against flatwater guys, for sure, but I sure enjoyed it more. Real comfortable and stable, and still fast enough that I could dream I was winning the Head of the Charles :D

You'll find your speed coming up, trust me. Stick with your comfortable boat. It sounds like you are mastering it quickly. I'm envious.
Mark Underwood. Rower first, cyclist too.

Edward4492
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by Edward4492 » April 27th, 2017, 8:58 pm

Nice post Mark. Rowing can be a bit "bulky" compared to cycling. Get out bike, get on bike, ride bike. I just happened to fall into a perfect set up. I work about 5 minutes from Camden County Boat House on the Cooper River. Cooper is most certainly a national class venue. I managed to get a slip at the boat house. We have a local company, another five minutes away, called Shell Repair USA. Anthony Nezc sells used boats, I saw a 1997 Pocock 1x with fresh paint, new cock pit and hardware, upgraded carbon wing rigger, 175lb max, for $3200. Anthony had a couple of nice looking boats, he told me this was the one for me. The boat rows solid as a rock, no problem with winds up to 15 mph (the boat house limit). I can see that with out all of the pieces falling into place, rowing can be very difficult to do on a consistent basis. I'd also be re-miss if I didn't mention my exceptional young coach, Matt Bowen. This guy is wise beyond his years. He knocked two years off my learning curve. Last year I went from never having been in a boat to winning a head race in a mixed quad in the stroke seat.

So.....I have a very long way to go, but I've already surpassed my most ambitious goals for rate of progress. And it's unbelievably fun!

(NOTE: I spent a lot of time in a Maas 24 last summer and it was a very nice boat, very stable and fast enough).

lwtguy
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by lwtguy » April 28th, 2017, 7:53 am

If you're in the Philadelphia area you're already in the right place to "fall into" rowing :lol: .
Bill, 23, 160-165 lbs.
PBs-- 500m 1:28.9-- 1K 3:08.9-- 2K 6:37.7-- 5K 17:27.6
6K 21:11.2-- 30' 8342m-- 10K 35:54-- 60' 16209m

Edward4492
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by Edward4492 » April 29th, 2017, 9:33 pm

No doubt Bill. I kind of knew crew was a big deal around here, but I didn't realize how big until I started doing the local erg events(Center City Slam, Haddon Hammers, Main Line Slide, etc). 100's upon 100's of high school kids......and 5 or 6 Masters (except the Slam, big turn out there). Then I went up to the Schuykill, watched some athletes I knew row at Stotesbury Regatta; something like 5000 athletes there. Was at Cooper River today, the place is completely over whelmed. It's really pretty amazing. The big opportunity is for the high school girls. If they have a little size, can get down to a 7:30 2k erg, and have acceptable skills in the boat there's a college that's looking for them.

Don't know if I'll get fast enough to compete in the 1x. Not really too concerned, rowing is something I think I'll be doing for the rest of my life just for the sheer pleasure it gives me. Let me know what local events you'll be doing.

lwtguy
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by lwtguy » May 1st, 2017, 12:43 pm

The Schuylkill Navy regatta for sure, maybe the Independence Day Regatta and the Overpeck Summer Sprints up in Bergen County. What about you?
Bill, 23, 160-165 lbs.
PBs-- 500m 1:28.9-- 1K 3:08.9-- 2K 6:37.7-- 5K 17:27.6
6K 21:11.2-- 30' 8342m-- 10K 35:54-- 60' 16209m

Edward4492
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Re: Fast Boats

Post by Edward4492 » May 1st, 2017, 9:59 pm

Navy Day (won that one last year in a mixed quad) and Independence day; "old geezer" 60+ mixed quad, Cooper River Masters. I assume you''ll be doing the single?

NOTE: Full disclosure, only boat in our class; but we beat our target time by 75 seconds and beat a bunch of other boats in and around our class. So it counts!

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