Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

No, ergs don't yet float, but some of us do, and here's where you get to discuss that other form of rowing.
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Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by karwask » July 16th, 2020, 4:50 pm

Hi All,

I live in Eugene, OR and row my private single, Maas 24, with the local club. Big part of my life, getting out three times a week in the spring, summer, into the fall. Recently hit a buoy and went in for the first time, now feeling a bit shaky in my otherwise remarkably stable craft. I love my boat! Doing what I can to get comfortable and relaxed again but also thinking about what the next iteration might be.

To that end wondered about the above mentioned alternatives thinking it might be a chance to own something I might be able to more easily transport so get to experience other bodies of water vs being tied down to the lake and the boathouse as I am now, also something that I might not worry so much about damaging, and that might even, eventually, fit in my garage if I'm not with the club in the longer run. And, I need to be able to handle it on my own. I also have a kayak 13' that allows for this and a carrier, Yakima Showdown, and that could easily transport something like the Edon TS515 and the Wavecutter, I"m pretty sure. Not so sure about the Echos? I can only carry about 40 pounds on my own. Was thinking if I needed to, perhaps can use my kayak wheels to move a boat down to the water if necessary, like the Echo, but the other two are about 40 pounds each.

I see that folks on here are familiar with the TS515 and are big supporters. If I had any druthers, would like to get something as sleek and close to my Maas 24 as possible so thinking something longer would be preferred, as would be the Wavecutter, at 20' or the Echo at 18'. Trying to figure out what would fit the bill best to be a bit more stable than my Maas, light enough to carry, 40 pounds, but also move nicely through the water.

So, any insight that anyone has about these considerations about each boat mentioned here is most appreciated. I'm trying to contact the folks from Race 1 and so far, very difficult, unsure how much they are a presence in this country and actually have product to ship?

thanks, in advance, for your consideration,

- karen

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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by pagomichaelh » July 16th, 2020, 8:34 pm

It doesn't sound like you have a truck - have you considered fabricating (or having fabricated if you can't weld) a small trailer?
5'7" 152# 66 y.o.

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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by PaulG » July 17th, 2020, 2:05 pm

It sounds to me like you could also include the Maas Aero and Peinert Zephyr in your search. Everyone I know who has either of these boats has enjoyed them. I think the Aero is slightly lighter and definitely longer (21 ft) than the Zephyr (19 ft). The exact weight specs will be on the manufacturer's website.

I have a Zephyr and find it to be fast and stable. I also rowed an Echo for a number of years and eventually sold it because it was too heavy moving around the boatshed and on and off a car. It was great in the water, the difficult part was getting it there. The newer Echoes are lighter, but again check the specs.

The best vehicle for transporting a shell is a small station wagon with a low roof but other than the Jetta Wagon and the Audi A4 I don't see many of that type anymore in the US. Even the Subaru Outback has a roof as high as an SUV. So, the simplest way to get a shell up on the roof and rack is to get one or two cheap nylon bathmats and place one on the break of the roof and rear window (SUV or wagon) and the other on the trunk (sedan). You can easily slide the shell up over the rear of the vehicles and up on the rack without ever lifting the full weight of the shell. Event the Yakima rack you mentioned has you lifting the full weight twice to get it on the roof.

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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by karwask » July 17th, 2020, 4:13 pm

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions. Yeah, I have a Highlander with a drop down kayak loader, like the Thule Hullivator but the Yakima equivalent.. Getting a trailer is an idea but more than I want to deal with at this juncture in time. Yes, it's a lot of weight to manage, perhaps the towel method is worth considering:).

Appreciate the suggestions about other brands. The Zephyr looks very interesting and appreciate your experience with it. Actually, liking what the Alden Star has to offer if I decided to make a change at all if I didn't end up with the Wavecutter: still have no response from them so unclear if they are even shipping product in the US. Still at 45 pounds rigged, Alden Star, at the top of what I can manage on top of the car and having to take the rigging off = not desirable. Yes, agree the Echo is probably out due to weight. I'm familiar with the Aero, have a few in the club and/but that' s a tad bit too wide:(.

I think I'm good, will continue to explore and mull things over and look into other brands as suggested. Input is much appreciated.


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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by Cyclist2 » July 17th, 2020, 8:21 pm

I have a Maas Aero. I'm 69 years old, 5' 8", 145#. I have a Toyota Tacoma pickup with a topper on it. I have no trouble handling my boat. When I got it I figured the long term success of this was minimizing the amount of weight I carry around. Here's how I do it:

Standard roof racks on the topper with a DIY wooden cradle strapped to it. The trick is skateboard wheels mounted near the back. I lift one end of the boat up onto the wheels, carefully hold the boat while moving to the other end, then just roll it on up. There are commercial versions of what I built. For the boat I built a little dolly out of 1" Schedule 40 PVC pipe and lawnmower wheels. That way I can get it to the water and back, and on and off the truck, only having to lift a fraction of the boat weight.

The only time I lift the full weight of the boat is into and out of the water. I have "slings" I made out of a foam roller that I set on the beach so I don't scratch up the boat (no docks where I launch) while I put the dolly back in the truck and grab the oars. I then bungee them to the boat for the row, ready when I get back.

Get creative and you won't have to get a new boat, which are in scarce supply right now. If you (or anyone) wants photos of the cradle or dolly, PM me and I'll gladly send them.
Mark Underwood. Rower first, cyclist too.

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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by BobW » July 18th, 2020, 10:36 am

Hi Mark,
I'd like to see what you made. Please send photos to bobo5412ataoldotcom. Thanks,Bob

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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by karwask » July 18th, 2020, 12:15 pm

Hey Mark,

Thanks for the thoughtful post. Yeah, pretty familiar with you little tips and tricks from trying to figure out kayak loading prior to having the one I have now. Was easier when I had a lower car, as in Subaru Outback. The Highlander is taller so the side loader device I used to use is not viable anymore for the kayak anyway and/but the principles you have illuminated still hold true and I am encouraged that I can figure this out as you have.

Yeah, if it's not a lot of trouble to send pics, that would be great!

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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by Zuman » July 18th, 2020, 10:06 pm

Like others have said, a roller system is a big help. I'm almost 68 and I use a Malone Channel Loader, which attaches by suction cups to the back window of my Mazda CX-9 SUV. If I'm alone, I usually leave the stern of my TS515 bungeed to a lightweight aluminum kayak cart, then lift the bow up onto the Malone Channel Loader. I then walk back to the stern, release the cart, and lift the stern. I can then slide it up the roller and onto the J-rack myself.
There is no question that the TS515 is less elegant than most of the other boats, but it's pretty fast and its construction makes it as close to indestructible as a sculling single gets.
As I've gotten older, I've found that it can be really wearying to deal with all the preparation to get a boat to the water and then, afterward, to get it loaded up and back home. On the other hand, silly little things have made a big difference, like permanently mounting tie-down anchor straps under the hood of my car and cutting my bow and stern tie-downs to the correct length and labeling them so I know which is which. The more tired I am the stupider I get, so my goal is to make things as idiot-proof as possible for after a long morning on the water!

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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by nysaag » July 19th, 2020, 10:59 am

Zuman, I am awaiting my EDON and was wondering what kayak cart and roof rack you recommend. Thanks, Paul

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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by frankieboy » August 11th, 2020, 4:43 pm

In my opinion you will find the following to be true of the boats you've listed.
The Echo, heavy and difficult yo pick up
The wavecutter, by all reports (I've not rowed one though) a horrible row
The Edon slower than you are used to.
It looks to me that your best bet is the Aero, not as fast as the 24 but not far behind and more stable than the 24
Alternatively fit the 24 with pontoons.

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Re: Insight TS515 vs Race 1 Wavecutter vs Echo Singles?

Post by joeboucher » August 16th, 2020, 2:50 pm

Hi, I contacted the the guy from race 1 usa about a wave cutter a little while ago and he was very helpful., but I'm in Canada so the border is a no go for me right now. Just to throw another wrench in have you considered a glide boat from the UK. I've never tried one, and I'm not sure how easy it would be to get in North America, but it looks like it might be close to what you are after. If anyone has any experience in one, I'd love to hear about it.

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