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jackarabit
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December '17 CTC

Post by jackarabit » December 1st, 2017, 10:20 am

Below is the FIRT choice for December workout :

"The French Kiss n°2" :
Row the following reps:
One minute, two minutes, three minutes,
one minute, two minutes, three minutes
with a maximum of nine minutes resting, spread any way you like.
First rep from a standing start, the other reps from a standing or rolling start (your choice).
Record your total distance for twelve minutes not including the nine minutes rest
same as May 2014, an opportunity to see if you have improved your rowing abilities from that point.
Which rendering of the FIRT French Kiss #2 would produce the better time for you?

1. 1'/0'R
2. 2'/3'R
3. 3'/3'R
4. 1'/0'R
5. 2'/3'R
6. 3'

OR

1. 1'/1'R
2. 2'/2'R
3. 3'/3'R
4. 1'/1'R
5. 2'/2'R
6. 3'

Thoughts?
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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hjs
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by hjs » December 1st, 2017, 11:36 am

Never use zero rest, every even short pause will recover anaerobic reserves, skip one and you miss that.
For the rest maybe a longer pause after the three minutes, but different ideas could work.

But whatever, don,t skip a rest.

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jackarabit
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by jackarabit » December 2nd, 2017, 12:48 pm

hjs wrote:Never use zero rest, every even short pause will recover anaerobic reserves, skip one and you miss that.
For the rest maybe a longer pause after the three minutes, but different ideas could work.

But whatever, don,t skip a rest.
Does this recovery of anaerobic reserves apply only to the short duration, alactic energy system? If so, it seems we would be repeatedly employing a cell chemistry in interval format that we can only use once in continuous rows? There was some chatter here recently that the use of rolling interval starts may contribute to overly-optimistic pace prediction for race and other continuous distance. Does repeated use of the 30" of alactic energy chemistry on intervals also skew predictions of continuous pace?
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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hjs
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by hjs » December 2nd, 2017, 2:14 pm

jackarabit wrote:
hjs wrote:Never use zero rest, every even short pause will recover anaerobic reserves, skip one and you miss that.
For the rest maybe a longer pause after the three minutes, but different ideas could work.

But whatever, don,t skip a rest.
Does this recovery of anaerobic reserves apply only to the short duration, alactic energy system? If so, it seems we would be repeatedly employing a cell chemistry in interval format that we can only use once in continuous rows? There was some chatter here recently that the use of rolling interval starts may contribute to overly-optimistic pace prediction for race and other continuous distance. Does repeated use of the 30" of alactic energy chemistry on intervals also skew predictions of continuous pace?
True. Alactic aerobic energy will be restored for plus 90% in the first minute. At lower aerobic intensities it also recovers, at ctc paces not.
This form of energy is very important for game sports, fast high intensity, but short enough to not use the lactic system to much. Use that once to the max and we are out for a good while.

People who use short format interval work a lot get good at it, both due to training effect and also due to learning to use our energy at best, for those people, on average, predictions will be off a bit.

Not a fan off rolling starts myself, simply not how racing works. And for ergers who have raced, a erging race starts very slow, miles away from a rolling start.

lindsayh
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Re: December '17 CTC

Post by lindsayh » December 2nd, 2017, 9:29 pm

jackarabit wrote:Which rendering of the FIRT French Kiss #2 would produce the better time for you? Thoughts?
I like a rest too and a minute helps. I can't remember what I did back in 2014 when this was first done but did about 2k-2 ish pace. (which got me to 63rd on the list!) I suspect closer to 163 in the current high power CTC.
I was thinking 1/2/2/2/2R might be a good way to go but likely doesn't matter too much of course
Lindsay
69yo 93kg
Sydney Australia
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

Pie Man
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by Pie Man » December 3rd, 2017, 10:48 am

Just done the c2ctc, decided to have a 1min first rest and then 2mins for the others. My 2k pb a month ago was 1:47.4 pace. I had seen a suggested pacing strategy of 1min -6s 2k, 2 mins -1s of 2k and 3 mins at +1s 2k pace, which should end up with a 2k -1 average I tried this, but it didn't work out and I hardly hit any of the targets with 1:42.3, 1:46.9, 148.4, 1:43.0, 1:48.5 and my last 3 mins was at 1:49.6 pace... I also felt unstable on the seat.
Oh well, I'm disappointed especially as I really felt the effort, this is going to be my last tough piece before the BRIC, I'm still hoping to pace my 2k there around 1:47 but I really don't want to blow up in the last 500 like I did last year pulling a 1:52...
Piers 53m was 73Kg 175cm to 2019 now 78kg
500m 1:34 (HW 2020) 2k 7:09.5 (2017 LWT) 10k 39:58.9 (2016 LWT) HM 1:28:26.9 (2017 LWT)

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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by Pie Man » December 3rd, 2017, 1:36 pm

Just thought I'd check the DF I used, luckily ergdata records it as I must of been on auto pilot this morning as it was set to 100, which is what I have tended to use for my SS work. Hopefully with a DF of 115 or so I would go better.
Piers 53m was 73Kg 175cm to 2019 now 78kg
500m 1:34 (HW 2020) 2k 7:09.5 (2017 LWT) 10k 39:58.9 (2016 LWT) HM 1:28:26.9 (2017 LWT)

lindsayh
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by lindsayh » December 13th, 2017, 6:50 am

ctc tonite for the first time this month
3470m @1:43.7 - reasonable though a fair bit slower than in 2014 (1:41.9) - could get a bit closer I suspect in the right circumstances
puts me in boat1 for the moment - FWIW I was in boat 4 last time - a real sign of the times right now
Terry did @1:51.3 which was pretty good for the old guy on light training - last time @1:49.9
Lindsay
69yo 93kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

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hjs
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by hjs » December 13th, 2017, 11:21 am

lindsayh wrote:ctc tonite for the first time this month
3470m @1:43.7 - reasonable though a fair bit slower than in 2014 (1:41.9) - could get a bit closer I suspect in the right circumstances
puts me in boat1 for the moment - FWIW I was in boat 4 last time - a real sign of the times right now
Terry did @1:51.3 which was pretty good for the old guy on light training - last time @1:49.9
Its indeed thin atm, good you guys keep on going :D

Myself not been in the mood to do hard stuff, also having a very poor year backwise, only working on basework, not having to really push it is also a nice break tbh. Atm also been sickly, does not help either and I train in a unheated gardenhouse, plants need rest, often just above freezing, not really tempting either.....

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jackarabit
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by jackarabit » December 15th, 2017, 8:40 pm

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There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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lindsayh
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by lindsayh » December 16th, 2017, 12:13 am

nice work jack and it looks like good quality meters too
Lindsay
69yo 93kg
Sydney Australia
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

Slothful1
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by Slothful1 » December 16th, 2017, 12:53 pm

Good stuff, Jack! I'm well behind target at the moment, but am now on leave for the rest of the year, so should be able to get it done by the 24th. Did 19km today, so only 75k left in 8 days, which should be fine.

I'll cross the 9 million metre mark on the way, over 7 years since I hit the 8 million mark (which took me 7 years!). Planning on revisiting the Pete Plan once the Holiday Challenge is over, with half an eye on BRIC if the timing works out for our travel plans in Dec 2018.

Cheers
Dave

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jackarabit
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by jackarabit » December 16th, 2017, 8:48 pm

Lindsay, I swore I'd balance the meter munching with a few " good quality" efforts this yr.

Cheers David and thanks for the tickle. My problem with the Holiday Challenge is the holidays--no access to an erg after 17 Dec. I did aim to hit the 200k mark first in the FF affiliation and managed it in 17 active plus 7 rest days @12k+ active day average.

You and I often gravitate to same boat in the CTC. Now that you have your nestlings fledged so to speak and the pressure for 24hr. parenting a bit less, I look for that to change to your advantage. Good luck with your training and your proposed trip to MerrieOlde for BRIC '18.
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by Slothful1 » December 17th, 2017, 4:26 am

I won't be leaving your boat for a while still, Jack! The kids might be giving me more time these days, but unfortunately work sticks its head in far too often. Doing my best to try maintain the appropriate balance, but sometimes it's hard to ignore what keeps me in beers and holiday travel.

Your Holiday Challenge constraint sounds like the last one I did (in 2010). Had to wrap it up a week early before flying out for our holiday that year, and I see I managed to start a few days late too. Only took 1 rest day, but I must have been doing a lot of late night sessions (my log has at least 3 sessions that I split across midnight to make sure the metres appeared in the right day :roll: ).

Enjoy the holiday break!

Dave

Erik A
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Re: Forum Flyers

Post by Erik A » December 18th, 2017, 5:04 pm

Hi Guys and Girls
Just joined the team. been having a hiatus from the erg for a few years (15 or so) and added some pounds on so gave myself a kick up the butt and am now back into it. albeit a bit slowly to start off. will be looking to participate in challenges as they arise.
Erik
56 yo from New Zealand
6'4 and 125kg

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