Forum Flyers

A member of an indoor rowing team or club? If so, this is the place for you.
User avatar
jackarabit
Marathon Poster
Posts: 4836
Joined: June 14th, 2014, 9:51 am

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by jackarabit » June 10th, 2019, 6:26 pm

Lots of rate changers in the Concept2 WODS. I did the 3x8’ from a few days ago: like L4 absent prescribed pacing.

1.
2’@ 20spm
2’@ 24
2’@ 22
2’@ 26

2.
3’@ 20
1’@ 24
3’@ 22
1’@ 26

3.
1’@ 20
3’@ 24
1’@ 22
3’@ 26spm (not fun)
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

M_72_5'-7"_164lb
Image

Training Log

lindsayh
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2864
Joined: June 23rd, 2013, 3:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by lindsayh » June 11th, 2019, 8:04 am

jackarabit wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 6:26 pm
Lots of rate changers in the Concept2 WODS. I did the 3x8’ from a few days ago: like L4 absent prescribed pacing.
These rate limited/changing ones seem to be cropping up a lot Jack - Eric Murray's sessions feature them all the time
Lindsay
68yo 91kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

User avatar
Papy
2k Poster
Posts: 290
Joined: September 5th, 2015, 2:39 pm

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by Papy » June 11th, 2019, 10:02 am

lindsayh wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 8:32 am

Bonjour Olivier (altho it is bonsoir here at the moment)
Good to see you have identified a way forward. I must say that your solution seems pretty sensible - I like the interval approach and do it a lot and varying your stroke rate and paces will help a lot and you will still get an excellent training effect. Variety is the spice of life!
best of luck
Thanks Lindsay. That certainly feels afresh to approach the meters in that way instead of a big boring chunk.

I did a 6 x 10min / 1min R yesterday (20/20/22/22/24/20) for 12,869m / 2'19.8 avg.

Today i worked on time intervals of 7'29 (my 2016 2K PB - hell why not :mrgreen: ) and focused more on maintaining various rates.

1 - 1,526m - 2:27.1 - 19 - 122 (WU)
2 - 1,634m - 2:17.3 - 20 - 132
3 - 1,716m - 2:10.8 - 22 - 143
4 - 1,753m - 2:08.0 - 24 - 156 :shock:
5 - 1,669m - 2:14.5 - 23 - 144
6 - 1,623m - 2:18.3 - 22 - 138
7 - 1,529m - 2:26.8 - 20 - 129 (CD)

Certainly sweaty and spent by the end.

Another change I made is that I listened to interview podcasts while rowing over the last couple of days. I thought the absence of my usual pace-making music would be adverse but far from it. The conversational element was positively distracting without affecting the concentration and rate/pace either. Pleasant surprise, that !
Olivier - UK - 45M, 104kg, 1m88 - Old PB:1'00:332m/500m: 1'36"9/1k: 3'38.9/2k: 7'29.3/5k:20'03.5/10k:42'37.4 / 30 min:7,367m /60min:13,547m/HM:1h33'43".8

User avatar
Papy
2k Poster
Posts: 290
Joined: September 5th, 2015, 2:39 pm

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by Papy » June 11th, 2019, 10:07 am

jackarabit wrote:
June 10th, 2019, 6:26 pm
Lots of rate changers in the Concept2 WODS. I did the 3x8’ from a few days ago: like L4 absent prescribed pacing.

1.
2’@ 20spm
2’@ 24
2’@ 22
2’@ 26

2.
3’@ 20
1’@ 24
3’@ 22
1’@ 26

3.
1’@ 20
3’@ 24
1’@ 22
3’@ 26spm (not fun)
Sounds interesting, might have a go at that. Thanks Jack.
Olivier - UK - 45M, 104kg, 1m88 - Old PB:1'00:332m/500m: 1'36"9/1k: 3'38.9/2k: 7'29.3/5k:20'03.5/10k:42'37.4 / 30 min:7,367m /60min:13,547m/HM:1h33'43".8

User avatar
jackarabit
Marathon Poster
Posts: 4836
Joined: June 14th, 2014, 9:51 am

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by jackarabit » June 11th, 2019, 12:23 pm

Papy-Ollie, the 3x8 will seem SO EASY to you after that 6x10 but suppose it’s all grist for the mill in the interest of becoming an all-rater. Low rate power per stroke can get to be a gravity well of comfort that is hard to escape after all the effort invested in doing exactly that (making it comfortable)!

Magnitude of the single effort.
Frequency of application of effort.
Maximizing both is the trick. :idea:

Timed intervals of 2kPB time? I’d have to do those at 10kPB pace. :lol:
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

M_72_5'-7"_164lb
Image

Training Log

User avatar
Papy
2k Poster
Posts: 290
Joined: September 5th, 2015, 2:39 pm

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by Papy » June 11th, 2019, 1:27 pm

jackarabit wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 12:23 pm
Papy-Ollie, the 3x8 will seem SO EASY to you after that 6x10 but suppose it’s all grist for the mill in the interest of becoming an all-rater. Low rate power per stroke can get to be a gravity well of comfort that is hard to escape after all the effort invested in doing exactly that (making it comfortable)!

Magnitude of the single effort.
Frequency of application of effort.
Maximizing both is the trick. :idea:

Timed intervals of 2kPB time? I’d have to do those at 10kPB pace. :lol:
hi Jack,

Considering I have only resumed erging less than 2 weeks ago, taking the rate up to 26 will be interesting for fitness anyway and more importantly also keeping the right form along the way. Some of the form went to pot on the 24 interval this morning, so that type of exercise will be handy in any case.

As for the the 2K PB interval, it was more some reverse psychology to see how many meters I could squeeze in that amount of time (within reason of course, not chasing unicorns :mrgreen: ). Could be a roundabout way to check the evolution of my fitness over the next few weeks/months.
Olivier - UK - 45M, 104kg, 1m88 - Old PB:1'00:332m/500m: 1'36"9/1k: 3'38.9/2k: 7'29.3/5k:20'03.5/10k:42'37.4 / 30 min:7,367m /60min:13,547m/HM:1h33'43".8

User avatar
jackarabit
Marathon Poster
Posts: 4836
Joined: June 14th, 2014, 9:51 am

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by jackarabit » June 11th, 2019, 2:05 pm

Some of the form went to pot on the 24 interval this morning,
Frustrating for me also! I’ve had a look at hjs’ training featuring periodic rate alternation. A master!
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

M_72_5'-7"_164lb
Image

Training Log

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 8646
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by hjs » June 12th, 2019, 4:14 am

jackarabit wrote:
June 11th, 2019, 2:05 pm
Some of the form went to pot on the 24 interval this morning,
Frustrating for me also! I’ve had a look at hjs’ training featuring periodic rate alternation. A master!
Cheers Jack.

Doing rate change stuff for a good few years now. So have had time. Got it from the wolverineplan, but use it with my own twists. Wolverine paces, if I use my real 2k reference, is very tough. So I go a bit slower.

Few pointers for me. It helps sessions to seem shorter, every change is a short goal to go for.
Start out relative slow, so you don,t get winded and start to struggle, certainly after higher ratings. If you do, paces are to fast
I think.
To fight boredome, change up the interval sets. Example, say you want to pull rate 20 av, using rate 18,20,22 equaly.
Base is 2/2/2 or 3/3/3, but you can play with that. Do 2/2/2, 3/3/3 1/1/1. Or 321 123 5/5/5 whatever.
I often make it up during the session.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

User avatar
jackarabit
Marathon Poster
Posts: 4836
Joined: June 14th, 2014, 9:51 am

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by jackarabit » June 12th, 2019, 6:46 am

Takes a real tough cookie with a long history to achieve higher than 22spm seasonal average on WP, Level 4 work. Think Caviston says his typical season average seldom topped out above 20spm. Sure ain't speed training!

Hi Lo rates in alternation combined with equal work periods as in 2/2/2/2/2 produce rest for legs and lungs in alternation much as does sit and spin/stand and grind in cycling. I used to really like 22,26,22,26,22, change on the Ks. 26,22,26,22,26 has always been too much of a good thing for me. :lol: Time ladders and pyramids, like distance ladders and pyramids, are easier descending than ascending. Stating the obvious maybe but a bridge too far sometimes looks closer than it is!
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

M_72_5'-7"_164lb
Image

Training Log

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 8646
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by hjs » June 12th, 2019, 7:00 am

jackarabit wrote:
June 12th, 2019, 6:46 am
Takes a real tough cookie with a long history to achieve higher than 22spm seasonal average on WP, Level 4 work. Think Caviston says his typical season average seldom topped out above 20spm. Sure ain't speed training!

Hi Lo rates in alternation combined with equal work periods as in 2/2/2/2/2 produce rest for legs and lungs in alternation much as does sit and spin/stand and grind in cycling. I used to really like 22,26,22,26,22, change on the Ks. 26,22,26,22,26 has always been too much of a good thing for me. :lol: Time ladders and pyramids, like distance ladders and pyramids, are easier descending than ascending. Stating the obvious maybe but a bridge too far sometimes looks closer than it is!
L4 is not ment to get above 20spm. M. Himself got there sometimes. But he was superfit and had a very high weekly volume. 150km or even more.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

User avatar
Papy
2k Poster
Posts: 290
Joined: September 5th, 2015, 2:39 pm

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by Papy » June 13th, 2019, 11:22 am

3 x 15 min yesterday
3 x 20 min today with 10 min on the bike to warm up first.
HR improving steadily with effort.
3 pounds lost in the last week.
Rest day tomorrow, off on holiday in the evening...and according to their website, the holiday resort has an erg at their gym.
Nice to be back :mrgreen:
Olivier - UK - 45M, 104kg, 1m88 - Old PB:1'00:332m/500m: 1'36"9/1k: 3'38.9/2k: 7'29.3/5k:20'03.5/10k:42'37.4 / 30 min:7,367m /60min:13,547m/HM:1h33'43".8

ivan141
500m Poster
Posts: 70
Joined: October 23rd, 2016, 9:46 am

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by ivan141 » June 17th, 2019, 4:00 am

Had a little stab at the june CTC saturday, but only 10 intervals since I had a 2k on sunday (finished that one in 7:20, not too bad for a company eight with only 3 practice sessions together, 4th out of 5 sadly).

What's your take on the proper pacing for the full 20 intervals? I get the feeling 2k pace should be sustainable, but I'm not really sure what I'm capable of these days. My 30+ rate performance has really taken a nosedive this year. I averaged 1:46 for 10 intervals, could give it plenty more beans on the last one but I dread to think what 10 more would have felt like.
M/38yo/97kg Image

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 8646
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by hjs » June 17th, 2019, 9:15 am

ivan141 wrote:
June 17th, 2019, 4:00 am
Had a little stab at the june CTC saturday, but only 10 intervals since I had a 2k on sunday (finished that one in 7:20, not too bad for a company eight with only 3 practice sessions together, 4th out of 5 sadly).

What's your take on the proper pacing for the full 20 intervals? I get the feeling 2k pace should be sustainable, but I'm not really sure what I'm capable of these days. My 30+ rate performance has really taken a nosedive this year. I averaged 1:46 for 10 intervals, could give it plenty more beans on the last one but I dread to think what 10 more would have felt like.
Think its a bit below 2k pace. Maybe not overthink it and just give it a go, do a bit of warm up. Feeling like I think it should be, first 5, this is doable.. at 10 man... 20 is a lot, don,t know if I get make it. At 15, not much thinking going on, one at the time. Last rep, hmmm still had some left, clearly the fastest rep :D

Says he who has not done at single rep :wink:

I will go off around 1.35 rating 30 is my plan now and see how it goes.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

lindsayh
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2864
Joined: June 23rd, 2013, 3:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by lindsayh » June 17th, 2019, 7:11 pm

ivan141 wrote:
June 17th, 2019, 4:00 am
What's your take on the proper pacing for the full 20 intervals? I get the feeling 2k pace should be sustainable, but I'm not really sure what I'm capable of these days. My 30+ rate performance has really taken a nosedive this year. I averaged 1:46 for 10 intervals, could give it plenty more beans on the last one but I dread to think what 10 more would have felt like.
Ivan I have done both the CTC hard and a 2k TT/race this month - the CTC was @1:41.9 and the 2k @1:44.9 so could aim 2k -2/3 for the intervals I reckon.
Lindsay
68yo 91kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 8646
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: Forum Flyers

Post by hjs » June 23rd, 2019, 8:38 am

Ctc done and dusted. Pretty horrible :roll:

Summer started over here. Warm 26, and getting hotter. Work out outside, so nowhere to hide.

20x 300 rest 1, dr130 rating 30, 28 strokes per rep.

First 19 between 133.8 and 135.3 last one 129.5 18:51.7 134.3


Not used to this at all, rating is to low, but not used to more so went with it.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

Post Reply