getting heart rate up

[Citroen]

Can height make that much of a difference?

Yes.

Go and read lots of the old threads on http://c2forum.com/viewforum.php?f=5

[Montanaandy]

Thanks Citroen. So I am actually under the recommended drag factor for my weight. I am also going to check the damper settings to see if they are accurate or if the flywheel needs cleaning. Thanks again. Andy

[BrianStaff]

I can't imagine sustaining 2:30

You will - give yourself a couple of months.

I'm having a hard time understanding how a lower stroke rate translates into a harder workout/higher heart rate.

I'm relative beginner too - starting pulling about 2:45 when I started and now 6 months later, I'm really close to 2:00 for 2K. It took me a while to understand the relationship between rate/pace/power/heartrate - sometimes its not intuitive.

As a suggestion, try to concentrate on maintaining a constant pace, say 2:55 for now, on a session at 30spm and then try to maintain the same pace at a low 20spm. You should find that you will need to drive much harder on each stroke at the lower stroke rate. Your harder drive needs to come from more power with your leg drive - not your arms - that's important.

Once you are comfortable with 2:55 pace, then try to lower that pace on your next sessions.

Good luck Brian

[wafermint]

Thank you tall people! I will experiment and see if I can make it work.

[iain]

I can't imagine sustaining 2:30 --- when I go all out in the last minute I do get down to 2:50 or so but that also seems to increase my stroke rate which is normally about 30. I'm having a hard time understanding how a lower stroke rate translates into a harder workout/higher heart rate. Can height make that much of a difference? I'm a short 5'4". I've gone over and over the technique videos and feel like I'm doing everything right but it may look different than it feels.

Height does make a difference, but here is Jane (Little Weed)'s signature to show you what is achievable.

jane 44/5ft2in/60kg
1k 2:01.8/2k 2:07.0/5k 2:11.2/6k 2:12.6/30mins 2:12.6/10k 2:14.3/60mins 2:16.5/HM 2:18.2/FM 2:25.8

I am not sure of realistic times (hence saying closer to 2:30). But the effect of technique is such tht I frequently see men bigger stronger and younger than me rowing 500m at 15+S/500m slower than I did my HM at, and I am slow by Forum standards.

As for technique, if you could post a video then those who know much more than I will let you know. Failing that, some thoughts:

The most common reason for reduced power is losing some of the leg drive by either starting with bent arms which straighten as the legs drive, or the back bends forward to lose some of the leg drive. Many people slightly straighten their back at the catch to ensure that all the leg drive powers the handle.You need to Drive hard with the legs, then the back and finally the arms. Then you can creep back up the slide as slowly as you comfortably can to recover for another powerful drive.

See http://www.concept2.co.uk/training/oneill_test.php for what should be possible (PS I think the "10 mins familiarisation" is a massive under estimate and take this to mean with reasonable technique...). For your category "Average" performance is 829m in 4 mins, 1:24.8 / 500m, while "below Average" is 749m or 2:40.2 pace. Agreed that your height might increase these a little, but there is clearly much room for improvement.

John advocated very slow rowing for very long periods (>2hrs). If you have the time these will do you good, but the consensus is that much of the benefit can be achieved in 30-45min rows at slightly higher intensity.

Whatever you decide, enjoy it.

Iain

[Montanaandy]

I checked my drag factor settings and they are way off. On My Model C a damper setting of 1=80 and a setting of 10=187. Curiously, the 5 setting that I have been rowing at indicates a drag factor of 124 which is close to where I should be based on weight. These reading are way off of the 1=95 & 10=205 that was stated. Would dust be causing these large discrepancies or is my PM not calibrated correctly (I can't remember how to calibrate it it has been so long). I keep the chain well lubricated and the track crystal clean. Thanks, Andy

[iain]

I checked my drag factor settings and they are way off. On My Model C a damper setting of 1=80 and a setting of 10=187. Curiously, the 5 setting that I have been rowing at indicates a drag factor of 124 which is close to where I should be based on weight. These reading are way off of the 1=95 & 10=205 that was stated. Would dust be causing these large discrepancies or is my PM not calibrated correctly (I can't remember how to calibrate it it has been so long). I keep the chain well lubricated and the track crystal clean. Thanks, Andy

Citroen's response was for a clean machine. DF of 110 at 10 has been recorded for dirty ones. Basically anything that restricts the air flow will reduce the drag. So fluff in the fan will, as will the erg being close to a wall. the PM3 is self correcting so doesn't need calibrating, it ignores the damper setting and works off the actual drag. As people rarely go above 150 drag, you don't need to clean it, just be aware that you need to set the damper to give the DF that you want on another machine and periodically check the DF on yours.

Regards

Iain

[Montanaandy]

My erg abuts a door and a wall but it may also be a bit dirty (cat & dog hair although we keep the erg in an exercise room). Thanks for the advice iain. Andy.

[johnlvs2run]

Andy, your drag factor sounds find to me.

I can't imagine sustaining 2:30 --- when I go all out in the last minute I do get down to 2:50 or so but that also seems to increase my stroke rate which is normally about 30.

Yes, faster speed = faster stroke rate, other things being equal.

I'm having a hard time understanding how a lower stroke rate translates into a harder workout/higher heart rate.

It doesn't, though it might be good for practicing a stronger drive with the legs, that would not be sustainable if the rating was higher.

Can height make that much of a difference?

Definitely. More height, higher torso, longer arms and more weight all contribute to a longer drive, which means less strokes to cover the same distance with the handle, plus a 10% difference between women and men.

I've gone over and over the technique videos and feel like I'm doing everything right but it may look different than it feels.

Then you probably are.

[johnlvs2run]

Andy,

That's about the range of my modelD when it's next to a wall, actually 75 to 180.

When it's in the middle of the garage then the range is 79 to 205, big difference.

[Montanaandy]

Thanks John. It makes sense that having the erg in the corner of a room abutting the wall would change the air flow I just never thought about it. Andy

[wafermint]

Hi - I just wanted to report back that I followed several of the suggestions here and in the Women's forum and it's made a big difference. First I lowered the damper setting so my drag factor is around 100-105, and then in addition to really paying attention to my form I started to row strapless! That made a huge difference as I think it made me use my legs more effectively. So now I'm at a stroke rate of 24-26, time/500m is around 2:60 and within minutes my heart rate is up to 150.

Thanks again for all your advice, it really helped!

[BrianStaff]

So now I'm at a stroke rate of 24-26, time/500m is around 2:60 and within minutes my heart rate is up to 150.

2:60 ? - is that just a tad below 3 minutes?

Well done on your improvements.

Brian

[wafermint]

Ha, sorry, obviously a typo: 2:50, even better!