Drag Factor

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 7657
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: Drag Factor

Post by hjs » November 8th, 2018, 6:00 am

GJS wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 5:31 am
Pretty difficult to determine efficiency from looking at the force curve, I would guess.

Not least because, for reasons I don't understand but others might, it's a good deal easier to produce a smooth curve at high drag (even while gross technical deficiencies remain :lol: ).

Easy to do a few test pieces, however.

See what happens to your hr when you row at a fixed pace at different drag factors. (Ideally testing at similar levels of fatigue, in similar conditions etc etc)
Agree, high drag always gives a nice fat curve, says little how that works inside our body.

Low drag is tougher to "catch" the running flywheel, will be more spiky and shows more bumps/dips.

For myself, drag gives a nice round curve and high pace :D ....... But can,t hold that very long and it tough on the body. During sprints, with less time for the flywheel to break this is less of a problem.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

ukaserex
Paddler
Posts: 23
Joined: November 3rd, 2018, 12:37 pm

Re: Drag Factor

Post by ukaserex » November 8th, 2018, 1:45 pm

Let me say this:

A profound measure of gratitude to all who replied. Just a few posts in, with several replies, and I feel like I've already learned more than a couple of things I thought I knew, but apparently didn't have a solid understanding of. A lot more for me to learn - and that's a good thing. (for me - the rest of you may get weary of questions)

I hadn't thought about how fatigue would impair efficiency in the course of a row, nor how a larger drag factor would hasten the onset of that inefficiency.

Dangerscouse
10k Poster
Posts: 1480
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: Drag Factor

Post by Dangerscouse » November 8th, 2018, 1:52 pm

ukaserex wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 1:45 pm
Let me say this:

A profound measure of gratitude to all who replied. Just a few posts in, with several replies, and I feel like I've already learned more than a couple of things I thought I knew, but apparently didn't have a solid understanding of. A lot more for me to learn - and that's a good thing. (for me - the rest of you may get weary of questions)

I hadn't thought about how fatigue would impair efficiency in the course of a row, nor how a larger drag factor would hasten the onset of that inefficiency.
This forum never fails to amaze me in the extent of collective knowledge and I really doubt that any of us will get weary of questions, so keep asking as I'm sure other people will benefit too. We aren't always right but we always love the debate.

A lot of us have made the mistakes so others don't have to!!
44 Years Old; 6' 4"; 95kg; Liverpool, England 2k= 6:38; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,264m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 75k=5:29:15; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

Instagram: stuwenman

paullu
Paddler
Posts: 3
Joined: December 29th, 2017, 4:16 pm

Re: Drag Factor

Post by paullu » November 8th, 2018, 6:41 pm

I’m a beginner (6’3”), and I’ve noticed that at drag factor 130, the stroke becomes a little “easier” at the point where I transition from my legs to my arms. (Is that called the catch? No idea). Anyway, does that imply that I should slightly increase the drag factor, so there’s no loss of tension at any point in the stroke?

MPx
2k Poster
Posts: 221
Joined: October 30th, 2016, 1:38 pm
Location: Somerset, UK

Re: Drag Factor

Post by MPx » November 8th, 2018, 7:40 pm

The catch is at the start of the stroke when you push with your legs. Which goes on to the swing (11 oclock to 1 oclock) of the body and then to the arms. If you have a good strong drive with the legs but then it feels too easy on the arms its probably because you're moving your arms too slowly. The drive is ideally quite quick and linearly (is that a word?) smooth. The recovery (from back to front of the erg) should also be smooth but can vary in time taken - whereas the drive should always be quick and fairly hard. Putting the drag factor up wont make your arms faster - in fact it will probably make them sower. HTH
Mike - 61 HWT 183

Image

paullu
Paddler
Posts: 3
Joined: December 29th, 2017, 4:16 pm

Re: Drag Factor

Post by paullu » November 8th, 2018, 11:28 pm

MPx wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 7:40 pm
The catch is at the start of the stroke when you push with your legs. Which goes on to the swing (11 oclock to 1 oclock) of the body and then to the arms. If you have a good strong drive with the legs but then it feels too easy on the arms its probably because you're moving your arms too slowly. The drive is ideally quite quick and linearly (is that a word?) smooth. The recovery (from back to front of the erg) should also be smooth but can vary in time taken - whereas the drive should always be quick and fairly hard. Putting the drag factor up wont make your arms faster - in fact it will probably make them sower. HTH
Thanks, this helped a lot

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 7657
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Contact:

Re: Drag Factor

Post by hjs » November 9th, 2018, 3:44 am

paullu wrote:
November 8th, 2018, 6:41 pm
I’m a beginner (6’3”), and I’ve noticed that at drag factor 130, the stroke becomes a little “easier” at the point where I transition from my legs to my arms. (Is that called the catch? No idea). Anyway, does that imply that I should slightly increase the drag factor, so there’s no loss of tension at any point in the stroke?
Rowing, strapless will teach you to finish strong, feet without the straps around them. And lowering the drag could help. This forces you to move fast. Later you could move back up again. 130 in itself is plenty drag.
Strapless is for longer, low rate, training, not for faster shorter stuff.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

jamesg
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2154
Joined: March 18th, 2006, 3:44 am
Location: Trentino Italy

Re: Drag Factor

Post by jamesg » November 9th, 2018, 6:15 am

The flywheel is an inertial load, and action and reaction are equal and opposite, so the resistance we feel is equal to the force we apply to the handle and proportional to the flywheel acceleration caused.
77y, 188cm, 85kg, MHR 160. Last 2k (May 1018) 8.37@23

Post Reply