Age / Height / 2k results

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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gregsmith01748
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Age / Height / 2k results

Post by gregsmith01748 » December 6th, 2018, 4:11 am

Hi,

Rowers often talk about the relationship between age, weight, height and rowing performance. Last winter I did an extensive analysis of how age effected rowing performance, but there is very little data on how weight and height effect things.

I would like to ask a favor of all you rowers out there. I have put together a very brief survey on survey monkey. It should take less than 5 minutes to complete, and it is completely anonymous. Would you please follow the included link at fill it out for me. Once I have a reasonable data set, I'll do the analysis and publish it for everyone.

Thanks
Greg

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/N6Z63NV
Greg
Age: 55 H: 182cm W: 90Kg
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MartinSH4321
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by MartinSH4321 » December 6th, 2018, 5:58 am

Hi,
did it right now, it only takes about 1-2min, I hope you'll get a lot of feedback!
And please inform us about your research results when finished, sounds interesting :-)
Martin
Martin, 35, from Austria
186cm / 101Kg (6ft1/223lb)
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started rowing in June 2018

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gregsmith01748
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by gregsmith01748 » December 6th, 2018, 8:44 am

Hi,

The previous study that I did on age and erg results can be found here:

https://analytics.rowsandall.com/2018/0 ... thodology/
Greg
Age: 55 H: 182cm W: 90Kg
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Dangerscouse
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by Dangerscouse » December 6th, 2018, 8:57 am

I've completed it also, and I'll be interested to see the results too
45 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool, England 2k= 6:38; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 75k=5:29:15; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

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KeithT
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by KeithT » December 6th, 2018, 12:47 pm

Took the survey.
50 yo, 6'3" 205#
PBs (all since turning 50):
1 min - 369m, 500m - 1:23.7, 1K - 3:01.8, 4 min - 1265, 2K - 6:31.6, 5K - 17:37, 30 min - 8277m, 10K - 36:30, 60 min - 16036, HM - 1:20:48

Mark E
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by Mark E » December 6th, 2018, 1:14 pm

Based off of your age/performance data, I wonder what kind of declines you predict.

I was thinking that getting a 2K score at 51 that's 10 percent slower than my PR at 24 years old would be a good challenge.

Therefore, my old PR of 6:30 (rounded up by a few seconds) is 390 seconds, so add 39, heck let's just say 40, seconds is about a 7:10.

Seems pretty challenging, especially with only 4/5 months of training so far after returning to rowing this summer.

Does that seem in line with the performance declines you've documented?

Thanks or any insights you might provide!
6'0 166 lbs. 51 years old, 2K PR 6:27 (recorded a few decades ago, started OTW rowing again summer 2018)

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hjs
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by hjs » December 6th, 2018, 1:37 pm

Mark E wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 1:14 pm
Based off of your age/performance data, I wonder what kind of declines you predict.

I was thinking that getting a 2K score at 51 that's 10 percent slower than my PR at 24 years old would be a good challenge.

Therefore, my old PR of 6:30 (rounded up by a few seconds) is 390 seconds, so add 39, heck let's just say 40, seconds is about a 7:10.

Seems pretty challenging, especially with only 4/5 months of training so far after returning to rowing this summer.

Does that seem in line with the performance declines you've documented?

Thanks or any insights you might provide!
Really don,t think so. Look at the 50 plus wr list. Difference is a lot smaller. And the overall records are from olympic pro s mostly. 500m record is only 3 seconds above the overall record. 1.13 and 1.10. 1.13 from a 54 year old.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by Mark E » December 6th, 2018, 2:22 pm

I know there are some super strong older rowers out there -- and no doubt some that have not declined too much from their younger days. But what's a typical drop in performance over two or three decades is my question. Not the outliers at the extreme end of the curve but the middle of the Bell curve.

Just curious -- I'm sure there's plenty of room for individual variation.

I came up with 10 percent mostly based on the decline in running performance I've experienced. Usually ran about 37/38 minutes for a 10K race in my 20s/30s, more like 41/42 in my mid-40s, and now I'd guess (though not running currently) 43 minutes in my early 50s. Call it a 4 minute decline, or about 10%.
6'0 166 lbs. 51 years old, 2K PR 6:27 (recorded a few decades ago, started OTW rowing again summer 2018)

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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by jamesg » December 6th, 2018, 2:35 pm

For 2k I've dropped from 280 to 180 W in 15 years, which is close to 3% per year. This is 1% in pace which looks better but means nothing.
77y, 188cm, 85kg, MHR 160. Last 2k (May 1018) 8.37@23

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hjs
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by hjs » December 6th, 2018, 2:56 pm

Mark E wrote:
December 6th, 2018, 2:22 pm
I know there are some super strong older rowers out there -- and no doubt some that have not declined too much from their younger days. But what's a typical drop in performance over two or three decades is my question. Not the outliers at the extreme end of the curve but the middle of the Bell curve.

Just curious -- I'm sure there's plenty of room for individual variation.

I came up with 10 percent mostly based on the decline in running performance I've experienced. Usually ran about 37/38 minutes for a 10K race in my 20s/30s, more like 41/42 in my mid-40s, and now I'd guess (though not running currently) 43 minutes in my early 50s. Call it a 4 minute decline, or about 10%.
I pulled 6.14 around 30. And 6.22 just shy of 50.... Not what you want to hear. :wink: Restarted just before turning 40.

Running is very different, you seldom see older people still run ok. Much more dropoff, think the shockimpact plays a big role.

The older guys are less outliners compared to the overall records in my view. Those come from the bigger pool, so more the outliners, simply using a normal curve.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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gregsmith01748
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by gregsmith01748 » December 6th, 2018, 3:29 pm

I analyzed all concept2 ranked results for 15 ranking seasons (2003-2018). I looked at the decline in performance relative to the results in the "younger than 30" group. If you look at all rowers and just put it on a plot, here's what it looks like.

Image

The decline with age is not the same for different group of rowers (male/female, light/open weight). Nor is it the same for the highest performing rowers. Here's a table breaking it down.

Image
Greg
Age: 55 H: 182cm W: 90Kg
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by mitchel674 » December 6th, 2018, 3:57 pm

done
53yo male, 6ft, 162lbs

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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by Mark E » December 6th, 2018, 3:58 pm

Thanks Greg -- very cool analysis! I don't mind at all hearing that you and others have staved off big declines in rowing performance. For one thing, I've only been back at it with rowing since July, and have been hitting it hard on the erg for only the past two months. Who knows -- maybe by next fall/winter I'll be near the splits I could hit as a lightweight in the early 1990s. It's hard to know, and right now I feel like I'm making good progress.

Running is unforgiving, for sure, but again you have outliers who stay fast, or even get faster, in the later years. There's a big correlation for high-performing masters runners with people who did not run competitively in their younger years. Rowing, I suspect, doesn't tend to inflict as much cumulative damage.
6'0 166 lbs. 51 years old, 2K PR 6:27 (recorded a few decades ago, started OTW rowing again summer 2018)

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gregsmith01748
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by gregsmith01748 » December 6th, 2018, 4:55 pm

I took a quick look at the results so far. I have about 150 responses.


Here's a quick plot of the 2k times versus height for just the male rowers.

Image

Here it is for female rowers

Image

I think for it to be meaningful, I will need about 10x more results. I have to break it down by age group to account for that effect.

By the way, no discernible trend relating weight to 2k times.
Greg
Age: 55 H: 182cm W: 90Kg
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Re: Age / Height / 2k results

Post by Gammmmo » December 6th, 2018, 5:13 pm

@Greg, unless I'm missing something (wouldn't be the first time!) why don't u colour code the dots according to HWT/LWT?
47M, 5'11" 75kg (+10!), ex bike time trialler.
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Targets: 36:59(10K), >8200m for 30mins, 6:44(2K), 3:12(1K), 1:27(500m), 350m+ (1min)

Erg on!

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