Trap / Hex bars for deadlifting

[StrengthCoachWill]

Trap bar is my favorite deadlift for rowing. The lack of posterior chain work IS a limitation. However, we always do Romanian deadlifts, hip thrusts, pullthroughs, glute-ham raises, or something else as assistance work for the posterior chain. I don't like a minimalist approach (only 3-4 lifts total, ala "Starting Strength") for rowing for this reason. Trap bar deadlift is fantastic for training leg drive from a stable torso position, with minimal shear stress on the spine and better ability to get into a good starting position, compared to a conventional barbell deadlift.

I do recommend using straps when deadlifting in general. There's plenty of forearm work and grip work in rowing anyway, and the forearm flexors can become overtrained. If you're having trouble getting a centered grip consistently, consider using some athletic tape to mark out the best grip position.

[MartinSH4321]

My deadlift is very average for my size. Haven't trained 1RM for straight bar deadlift for ages, prior to my best erg sprint performances I did 210kg/463lbs on the trap bar for 2 pretty easy reps, ran out of plates at home so couldn't do anymore

My decent LP might simply be a case of my weight/height (and 7ft wingspan) combined with OK strength.

Thanks for answering! So you're very strong, but not "powerlifter-strong" I always thought brute force / deadlift-max has the biggest influence on the LP, but it looks like weight/height/wingspan are at least as important. As a coach once said: You can't train height
Would be interesting what LP a guy like hafthor bjornsson would achive (at 6ft9, 400lb and a deadlift max > 1000lb) after some coaching.

[GJS]

Trap bar is my favorite deadlift for rowing. The lack of posterior chain work IS a limitation. However, we always do Romanian deadlifts, hip thrusts, pullthroughs, glute-ham raises, or something else as assistance work for the posterior chain.

Have you ever - as an athlete - deadlifted with a log with the explicit purpose of hitting the posterior chain, Will?
Not something you're likely or able to do with your charges, I suspect.

I'm drawn to the neutral grip, have access to a log, and the rationale seems sound:

https://thibarmy.com/two-helpful-deadli ... not-doing/

[hjs]

My deadlift is very average for my size. Haven't trained 1RM for straight bar deadlift for ages, prior to my best erg sprint performances I did 210kg/463lbs on the trap bar for 2 pretty easy reps, ran out of plates at home so couldn't do anymore

My decent LP might simply be a case of my weight/height (and 7ft wingspan) combined with OK strength.

Thanks for answering! So you're very strong, but not "powerlifter-strong" I always thought brute force / deadlift-max has the biggest influence on the LP, but it looks like weight/height/wingspan are at least as important. As a coach once said: You can't train height
Would be interesting what LP a guy like hafthor bjornsson would achive (at 6ft9, 400lb and a deadlift max > 1000lb) after some coaching.

Ever seen this? :

https://youtu.be/c1B01A6x9c0

187 98 Kg. Its not max strenght, its power. But would be fun ro see strongman guys pull on a rower. Eddy Hall pulled the skierg 100m. Ofcourse those results are drug records. Which is common in strongman.

[MartinSH4321]

Ever seen this? :
https://youtu.be/c1B01A6x9c0
187 98 Kg. Its not max strenght, its power. But would be fun ro see strongman guys pull on a rower. Eddy Hall pulled the skierg 100m. Ofcourse those results are drug records. Which is common in strongman.

Thanks for the link Henry, haven't seen the vid before.
I remember a vid of Brian Shaw, 4x Worlds strongest man (6ft.8', 420lb, deadlift max around 1000lb) trying 100m and almost broke the world record, with low/no technique, I think it was 12.7 sec. As Halfthor is one inch taller, the stronger deadlifter, faster and "slimmer" (less body fat) I think he has a good chance to break the 100m and LP record with some preparation. Of course, they won't pass a doping test, but I don't know if the actual record holder(s) are clean...

[hjs]

Ever seen this? :
https://youtu.be/c1B01A6x9c0
187 98 Kg. Its not max strenght, its power. But would be fun ro see strongman guys pull on a rower. Eddy Hall pulled the skierg 100m. Ofcourse those results are drug records. Which is common in strongman.

Thanks for the link Henry, haven't seen the vid before.
I remember a vid of Brian Shaw, 4x Worlds strongest man (6ft.8', 420lb, deadlift max around 1000lb) trying 100m and almost broke the world record, with low/no technique, I think it was 12.7 sec. As Halfthor is one inch taller, the stronger deadlifter, faster and "slimmer" (less body fat) I think he has a good chance to break the 100m and LP record with some preparation. Of course, they won't pass a doping test, but I don't know if the actual record holder(s) are clean...

Indeed, no testing in Erging..

And the guy in this clip, actually was caught, before in fitness comp.

No question those guys could pull big numbers, certainly with a bit of practice. Some may need a longer rail. And it will be a tough challenge for the machines those bodies with all the forces.

[GJS]

Check out Thor on the C2 @ 18 min 15 secs. Not too shabby! And - best I can tell - no support propping the join between rail and front end. Just this last weekend cemented his position as strongest man in the world by winning the Arnold Classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaDc4odQAiI

[StrengthCoachWill]

Trap bar is my favorite deadlift for rowing. The lack of posterior chain work IS a limitation. However, we always do Romanian deadlifts, hip thrusts, pullthroughs, glute-ham raises, or something else as assistance work for the posterior chain.

Have you ever - as an athlete - deadlifted with a log with the explicit purpose of hitting the posterior chain, Will?
Not something you're likely or able to do with your charges, I suspect.

I'm drawn to the neutral grip, have access to a log, and the rationale seems sound:

https://thibarmy.com/two-helpful-deadli ... not-doing/

I've done it with a log, with a dog, in the fog...no wait, that's not right.

I compete in strongman--not as big as Thor and Eddie, obviously--so I do plenty of log clean-and-presses myself, but I don't do deadlifts with it, and I don't use the log at all with rowers I coach. There are too many other deadlift variations more worth doing to spend training time on a novelty lift like that. With the ACRA team I coach, we lift twice a week for no more than 60-75 mins. Most masters I work with don't want to or don't have the time to lift more than that either, and you can make great gains off of two, focused, full-body, strength training workouts per week with the goal of improving as a rower/erger. We focus on the lifts they get the most out of with the limited time and recovery we have available. I can't think of a reason to use log deadlifts over Romanian deadlifts, even presuming that a client/athlete has a log available. If you want to do them though, go for it. There's a value in simply keeping training interesting, particularly as a self-coached athlete, even if it isn't "the best" thing according to someone else.

[GJS]

Cheers, Will.
I quite fancy clean and pressing the log at some point so familiarity with the thing will be somewhat helpful, but beyond that the advantage I see is that it's perhaps an idiot proof means of targetting the hams etc.

Romanian deadlifts, good mornings etc require additional cues and movements patterns that must be engrained or remembered; a stiff test for some, I can assure you. Assuming you can deadlift conventionally the log deadlift should target the posterior chain simply by virtue of its 12" (or whatever) diameter.

We'll see. Seems like a bit of fun and that's not unimportant, as you say.

[StrengthCoachWill]

Cheers, Will.

Romanian deadlifts, good mornings etc require additional cues and movements patterns that must be engrained or remembered; a stiff test for some, I can assure you.

This is actually a feature for me, not a bug. I typically see athletes who struggle to demonstrate a good hip hinge in a Romanian deadlift, good morning, or kettlebell swing, also tend to struggle with proper recovery and drive sequencing in the stroke. They tend to achieve stroke length and power through the spine and shoulders, instead of through the legs and hips. Developing the hinge motor pattern through a stable, grounded exercise like the Romanian or good morning can then be transferred to similar technique on the stroke (with work, of course). I would expect these athletes to commit the same faults on a log deadlift, rounding the spine and raising the hips quickly without proper transfer of force from the legs to the implement held in the hands. Master the basics, then add the variations.

[GJS]

Fair point, Will.

Yet, while my KB swing has been deemed acceptable by KB zealots and my GMs applauded by decent trainers I've never once, for instance, done two GM reps that felt exactly the same nor done a single one without having to remind myself, "soft knees, bum back, neutral lumbar etc etc".

I got the KB swing (and the hinge/ rock over element of the rowing stroke) straight off the bat but certain movements seem to demand excessive care. I'm surely impatient but there's something to be said - within reason - for just ripping things off the floor.

[MartinSH4321]

No question those guys could pull big numbers, certainly with a bit of practice. Some may need a longer rail. And it will be a tough challenge for the machines those bodies with all the forces.

you're right, I really felt mercy for the C2 when seeing this vid
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... gVy0a1Z4dn

[Anth_F]

you're right, I really felt mercy for the C2 when seeing this vid
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... gVy0a1Z4dn

Jeez!! The guy in the background on the left, wearing the blue cap n white T shirt is the absolute double of my brother I thought it was actually him

[Gammmmo]

Quick update: I persevered with the trap/hex bar at my local gym and seem to have largely got over the issue of it tipping forwards. I've noticed less lower back ache using it compared with a standard barbell. This is good, but the cynic in me suggests maybe this isn't because my body had to work as hard? Is it normal to be able to do more weight with the the hex bar? Should one mix usage of the two types of bars.

As an aside, I've noticed some good adaption just doing lots of reps at say ~85% of 1RM, and that once any superficial back ache goes off from working out, in general, I have zero chronic back ache. Also, didn't need straps to break my standard barbell PB with the hexbar.

[StrengthCoachWill]

Quick update: I persevered with the trap/hex bar at my local gym and seem to have largely got over the issue of it tipping forwards. I've noticed less lower back ache using it compared with a standard barbell. This is good, but the cynic in me suggests maybe this isn't because my body had to work as hard? Is it normal to be able to do more weight with the the hex bar? Should one mix usage of the two types of bars.

As an aside, I've noticed some good adaption just doing lots of reps at say ~85% of 1RM, and that once any superficial back ache goes off from working out, in general, I have zero chronic back ache. Also, didn't need straps to break my standard barbell PB with the hexbar.

Most people can do more with the hex bar than barbell. It is a more favorable mechanical position. As I mentioned in my reply, the hex bar is fantastic for main work, *combined with* additional work for the posterior chain (hamstrings, glutes, lower back).

>Trap bar is my favorite deadlift for rowing. The lack of posterior chain work IS a limitation. However, we always do Romanian deadlifts, hip thrusts, pullthroughs, glute-ham raises, or something else as assistance work for the posterior chain. I don't like a minimalist approach (only 3-4 lifts total, ala "Starting Strength") for rowing for this reason. Trap bar deadlift is fantastic for training leg drive from a stable torso position, with minimal shear stress on the spine and better ability to get into a good starting position, compared to a conventional barbell deadlift.

Don't throw the hex bar baby out with the bathwater. Enjoy the benefits of both by adding in ONE single posterior chain assistance exercise for 2-4 sets of 8-12 reps.