Training Plan Advice

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
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winniewinser
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Training Plan Advice

Post by winniewinser » August 14th, 2019, 6:51 am

Hi,

I'm a newbie to the forum but have been rowing since early 2018. To date I have concentrated on rowing longer distances up to 12.5km and have seen some organic improvements in my times but I feel I've hit a bit of a wall.

I'm 47, 6'2" and 80Kg so fairly light for a guy my height. Rowing is my main cardio exercise as I also suffer from Plantar Fascitis in my left foot which put pay to my running. I also do one or two hour long BodyCombat sessions each week with the other half. My job is desk bound so very little exercise there.

I've managed to get my 5km and 10km down to below 2:00/500m pace (10km was achieved this month) and tend to stroke fairly low (20-24) having been told by someone that it was better to go slow and have good technique rather than just thrash away. My target is to get my 5km below 18min and my 10km below 38min. I've only recently had a go at 2km and managed 7:23 but again would like to get that below 7min. I see others pulling much lower splits than I can fathom as possible for me but would like to go lower.

I have access to 2 gyms, one at work which uses C2 rowers and one in my hometown which has Technogym Skillrow machines. I'm currently rowing pretty much daily but with no real plan of what I should be doing to improve my times. The comparison in times between the 2 rowers is pretty similar and I have the drag factor around 130 on both. My home gym also has SkiErg machines.

Any advice is most welcomed as I seek to improve.

Thanks in advance
80kg, 6"2" Male, 1972, 2km=7:23@28, 5km=19:11@25, 10km=39:27@20

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hjs
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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by hjs » August 14th, 2019, 7:50 am

You are doing fine, but to get faster you need to start doing faster sessions also. Interval stuff, have a look at the Pete Plan, that would suit you.
Faster work will feel very different as first, you already can go faster I think, but thats will hurt.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

winniewinser
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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by winniewinser » August 14th, 2019, 2:38 pm

Thx for replying.

I've took today's session to start the Pete Plan but started with the intervals having done 10km yesterday morning.

6x500m/2min

1:49.1@23
1:50.0@25
1:49.0@25
1:50.0@26
1:49.0@25
1:46.0@28

It was a struggle after yesterday and I probably needed another rest day....something I rarely do which is probably hurting my times. Proof in point was getting a PB 10km after 2 days if not rowing.

More to come hopefully.
80kg, 6"2" Male, 1972, 2km=7:23@28, 5km=19:11@25, 10km=39:27@20

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hjs
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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by hjs » August 14th, 2019, 3:07 pm

winniewinser wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 2:38 pm
Thx for replying.

I've took today's session to start the Pete Plan but started with the intervals having done 10km yesterday morning.

6x500m/2min

1:49.1@23
1:50.0@25
1:49.0@25
1:50.0@26
1:49.0@25
1:46.0@28

It was a struggle after yesterday and I probably needed another rest day....something I rarely do which is probably hurting my times. Proof in point was getting a PB 10km after 2 days if not rowing.

More to come hopefully.
Really work on rating, aim for 30 or more, this was way to low, good thing is you have lots to gain.

Low rate for longer, aerobic sessions is great, for short fast work its not, keep that fan spinning, don,t make it weightlifting.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by winniewinser » August 14th, 2019, 4:41 pm

Ok...will give that a go next time....really struggle to go above 26-28 continuously but that's a good goal to have.
80kg, 6"2" Male, 1972, 2km=7:23@28, 5km=19:11@25, 10km=39:27@20

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hjs
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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by hjs » August 15th, 2019, 3:21 am

winniewinser wrote:
August 14th, 2019, 4:41 pm
Ok...will give that a go next time....really struggle to go above 26-28 continuously but that's a good goal to have.
Thats your problem yes, but its really important to be able to rate up. Key is often the turn, after the stroke turn right away, don,t overpower the last part and quickly start the next stroke.
Toprowers, who obviously are very fit, which is needed, row a lot at rate 18/20, but when racing they can use 35/40 over 2k.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by jamesg » August 15th, 2019, 9:21 am

5km and 10km down to below 2:00/500m pace ... stroke fairly low (20-24)
That's a good endurance training regime for someone your size and age. It indicates technique and a good level of base fitness.

Suggest you consolidate it with a few weeks work at UT1 level (around 70% of 2k test power: 260 x 0.7 = 180 Watts, pace 2:05).
A typical week would be
3x11'UT1 48'UT2 2x20'UT1 54'UT2 3x15'UT1

The next level is AT work, at up to 80% of 2k test Watts (260*0.8=210W, pace 1:58). A typical 5 day week has these pieces:
2x10'AT 4x12'UT1 2x10'AT 5x10'UT1 3x7'AT

I took these lines from a 26 week Level 4 Interactive 2k plan by Terry O'Neill.

After 6-8 weeks like this, another 2k test and readjust training paces.

Beyond that depends on what you want. Racing will need a more detailed plan with faster and shorter work, some of which at or faster than race pace.

Progress can be followed by doing an occasional 500m test, once well warmed up. This short test will not stop you using a high rating, say 35. This rate level requires a simple sequenced technique with which we can still pull full length and so see full power. It's a necessary experience in the process of technique perfection. The 2k distance is attacked from both ends: longer fast work for endurance; much faster but short to consolidate high rate technique.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by winniewinser » August 16th, 2019, 8:38 am

Thanks for the advise James. I'll try those workouts next week and try and pace them rather than going all out attack.

I think I understand the UT1 calculation....how does UT2 differ?

I tried the 500m intervals again this lunchtime and managed to rate quicker but went off way to fast and got hammered later on for it.

6x500m/2min
1:41.8@34
1:43.8@32
1:45.2@33
1:46.2@33
1:47.8@32
1:46.9@30

Lowered the DF to 120 too after listening to Eric Murray talk about it.

Cheers
80kg, 6"2" Male, 1972, 2km=7:23@28, 5km=19:11@25, 10km=39:27@20

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hjs
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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by hjs » August 16th, 2019, 11:14 am

winniewinser wrote:
August 16th, 2019, 8:38 am
Thanks for the advise James. I'll try those workouts next week and try and pace them rather than going all out attack.

I think I understand the UT1 calculation....how does UT2 differ?

I tried the 500m intervals again this lunchtime and managed to rate quicker but went off way to fast and got hammered later on for it.

6x500m/2min
1:41.8@34
1:43.8@32
1:45.2@33
1:46.2@33
1:47.8@32
1:46.9@30

Lowered the DF to 120 too after listening to Eric Murray talk about it.

Cheers
That made a lot more sense. You can build on this. Use the av as a starting pace a next time. Try to make the last the fastest one.

Ut2 is aerobic work where you do not produce lactate. You can,t really calculate that, but need testing to find out. On feel this is the pace where your breathing just stays calm, once it starts to get laboured you get in ut1 and beyond paces.
For my training see twitter @Hjsrowing

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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by jamesg » August 17th, 2019, 4:06 am

how does UT2 differ?
UT2 is conventionally considered as up to 60% of 2k test Watts (in the ex Interactive plans).

The other bands are:
UT1 60-70%
AT 70-80%
TR 80-105%
AN 105-115%

The catch using Watts is that if we train and then do another, faster test 2k, all our training bands will get tougher. Which can't go on for ever.
78y, 188cm, 87kg, last seen MHR 163. 2k (24 May 19) 8.46.6@22

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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by winniewinser » August 17th, 2019, 2:50 pm

5km day on the Pete Plan. I tried to keep rate over 25 and it felt good after this week's intervals. Couldn't reduce pace to UT1 at that rate and managed a new PB without really going for it until the last 750m.

5km, 19:11, 1:55.1 @ 25

Will try some longer intervals tomorrow and try and keep pace consistent.

Thanks for help so far
80kg, 6"2" Male, 1972, 2km=7:23@28, 5km=19:11@25, 10km=39:27@20

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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by winniewinser » August 18th, 2019, 4:41 pm

Longer intervals today...3x11min/3min rest... rating 22/24/26 nice and steady.

2734@22 2:00.7
2742@24 2:00.3
2775@26 158.9

Felt very comfortable, avg 144 HR.
80kg, 6"2" Male, 1972, 2km=7:23@28, 5km=19:11@25, 10km=39:27@20

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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by winniewinser » August 20th, 2019, 9:37 am

5500m today, aiming for the same pace as my 5km last week (PB) at same rate. I'm probably going at these too aggressive and not rowing the longer distance at sensible pace.

20:56.8 1:54.2 @25

Oh well, intervals tomorrow so that will hurt :wink:
80kg, 6"2" Male, 1972, 2km=7:23@28, 5km=19:11@25, 10km=39:27@20

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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by tgarrett3794 » August 21st, 2019, 12:10 am

winniewinser wrote:
August 20th, 2019, 9:37 am
5500m today, aiming for the same pace as my 5km last week (PB) at same rate. I'm probably going at these too aggressive and not rowing the longer distance at sensible pace.

20:56.8 1:54.2 @25

Oh well, intervals tomorrow so that will hurt :wink:
Hey There, I don't really have advice, but see you are getting some really good advice and this topic you created. I would also recommend that for posting your results, there is a topic on here, under the training -> training forum, called "what training have you done today?" most peeps are posting results there, and its a good community to get some feed back. the first gentleman to giv eyou feedback posts a lot over there and he has helped me out a lot with pacing and increasing my rate, since I am only 5:4.

hope to see you over there, and good work so far with the pp
31 YO, 5'4/162CM #165(72ish) PR3(vi) totally blind athlete
PBs: HM 1:39:48.9(06/21/2019)
goals: sub 8-min 2K, sub-20min 5K, sub-1:35:00 HM, complete a FM
"do something today that will make you better tomorrow then you were yesterday"

winniewinser
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Re: Training Plan Advice

Post by winniewinser » August 21st, 2019, 3:52 am

tgarrett3794 wrote:
August 21st, 2019, 12:10 am
Hey There, I don't really have advice, but see you are getting some really good advice and this topic you created. I would also recommend that for posting your results, there is a topic on here, under the training -> training forum, called "what training have you done today?" most peeps are posting results there, and its a good community to get some feed back. the first gentleman to giv eyou feedback posts a lot over there and he has helped me out a lot with pacing and increasing my rate, since I am only 5:4.

hope to see you over there, and good work so far with the pp
Gotcha, will post over there.
80kg, 6"2" Male, 1972, 2km=7:23@28, 5km=19:11@25, 10km=39:27@20

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