Question on warm up.

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
MartinSH4321
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by MartinSH4321 » September 10th, 2019, 8:26 am

KeithT wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 8:22 am
MartinSH4321 wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 6:58 am
max_ratcliffe wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 5:51 am


Here is what I believe to be the original story, from viewtopic.php?t=5373 (which was itself a repost):

An anecdote I have related before illustrates the point. Several years ago while coaching at Michigan in the pre-erg era, a staple workout was to have the team run a dozen times up (and down) a dozen flights of stairs in the tallest building on campus. Cumulative time for all 12 trips up & down would typically be in the 30-35’ range. The standard warm-up I required was to jog to the top & back at least twice before beginning the actual workout on the clock. Some athletes, as a penalty for various infractions during the previous week (late to practice, etc.) would also have to do two fast “penalty flights” within a specific time limit (or do more penalties), and within a couple minutes start the actual workout. So that meant 2 jog + 2 penalty + 12 workout flights. It quickly became apparent that not only were the athletes given the penalty flights NOT too tired to perform well – they took huge chunks off their best overall times; they performed MUCH better relative to past performances than their non-penalized teammates.

30-35' of stair running sounds brutal.
Thanks max, a lot of new imput I never thought of before :)

A 2k race WU of 7,5k is much more than I expected to be reasonable, I always have the fear to waste too much energy, but if Mike Caviston writes that many of his rowers had the same fear but were significantly faster at the end, that's something to be taken seriously.
To prevent me from getting too insecure I think I'll try a WU that's much longer than normal for me, including a few longer (300m?) pieces at race pace, maybe a total of 4-5k, and see how it feels.

I'll post my experience when done :D
Anxious to see how that goes for you - will help me decide if I need to change my warm-ups. You get the to be the test subject :D
No problem, time to give something back to the community here! :D
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg (6ft1/220lb)
LP: 1:08, 100m: 14.4, 1': 384m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 18:03, 30': 8107m, 30R20: 8010m 10k: 37:22
60': 15661m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since 2018-06, 3mm in Nov19

MartinSH4321
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by MartinSH4321 » September 10th, 2019, 9:33 am

hjs wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 7:36 am
Don,t forget that a guy Like Caviston or top otw people are used to high volume. A few k more means nothing for them.
Good point, I hope with 4k WU I'm on the save side, still double the volume of my normal WU.
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg (6ft1/220lb)
LP: 1:08, 100m: 14.4, 1': 384m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 18:03, 30': 8107m, 30R20: 8010m 10k: 37:22
60': 15661m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since 2018-06, 3mm in Nov19

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hjs
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by hjs » September 10th, 2019, 9:39 am

MartinSH4321 wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 9:33 am
hjs wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 7:36 am
Don,t forget that a guy Like Caviston or top otw people are used to high volume. A few k more means nothing for them.
Good point, I hope with 4k WU I'm on the save side, still double the volume of my normal WU.
Another point is time of day, the earlier, the more you are not awake. Very good warm up is needed. Later in day, certainly when you have been active, less is needed. Sometimes you hop on, and from the first stroke you are fully on.

For a serious session, TT, or race I would use the same Wu. This will also help mentaly to get you in right frame of mind.

Dangerscouse
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by Dangerscouse » September 10th, 2019, 10:10 am

KeithT wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 8:22 am
MartinSH4321 wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 6:58 am
max_ratcliffe wrote:
September 10th, 2019, 5:51 am


Here is what I believe to be the original story, from viewtopic.php?t=5373 (which was itself a repost):

An anecdote I have related before illustrates the point. Several years ago while coaching at Michigan in the pre-erg era, a staple workout was to have the team run a dozen times up (and down) a dozen flights of stairs in the tallest building on campus. Cumulative time for all 12 trips up & down would typically be in the 30-35’ range. The standard warm-up I required was to jog to the top & back at least twice before beginning the actual workout on the clock. Some athletes, as a penalty for various infractions during the previous week (late to practice, etc.) would also have to do two fast “penalty flights” within a specific time limit (or do more penalties), and within a couple minutes start the actual workout. So that meant 2 jog + 2 penalty + 12 workout flights. It quickly became apparent that not only were the athletes given the penalty flights NOT too tired to perform well – they took huge chunks off their best overall times; they performed MUCH better relative to past performances than their non-penalized teammates.

30-35' of stair running sounds brutal.
Thanks max, a lot of new imput I never thought of before :)

A 2k race WU of 7,5k is much more than I expected to be reasonable, I always have the fear to waste too much energy, but if Mike Caviston writes that many of his rowers had the same fear but were significantly faster at the end, that's something to be taken seriously.
To prevent me from getting too insecure I think I'll try a WU that's much longer than normal for me, including a few longer (300m?) pieces at race pace, maybe a total of 4-5k, and see how it feels.

I'll post my experience when done :D
Anxious to see how that goes for you - will help me decide if I need to change my warm-ups. You get the to be the test subject :D
I might even start including warm ups if it goes well...
46 HWT; 6' 4"; Liverpool 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:23; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,356m 60mins= 16,317m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:49:39; 50k= 3:28:18; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you Row"

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jackarabit
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Re: Question on warm u

Post by jackarabit » September 10th, 2019, 11:02 am

Martin S writes:
A 2k race WU of 7,5k is much more than I expected to be reasonable, I always have the fear to waste too much energy, but if Mike Caviston writes that many of his rowers had the same fear but were significantly faster at the end, that's something to be taken seriously.
To prevent me from getting too insecure I think I'll try a WU that's much longer than normal for me, including a few longer (300m?) pieces at race pace, maybe a total of 4-5k, and see how it feels.
😂 Soooo droll!



You all hear the one bout this fella name of Cavanaugh takes a bar bet he can’t chug a bucket of beer? Money’s down and he asks the barkeep for a bucket.

You would be doing what with me bucket? asks the barkeep.

I’d be askin ya to fill it so as I can go out back and make sartin I’m up to this chore! sez Cavanaugh.

Think the feller was a Navy SEAL. 🤔 You can goggle the canonical version if you like. :wink:

If you can’t manage a 19:45 wp at a UT2 simmer with three or four 30-45” upticks, last one at target or race pace, 4k of repeats of that last uptick could make the main event a might chancy :?:

New sport: XTreme Pre-Heat :!:
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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MartinSH4321
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by MartinSH4321 » September 11th, 2019, 4:01 am

I tried the new WU yesterday before strength training, felt pretty good, here is the log:

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
16:49.6 4,000m 2:06.2 174 899 22
1:16.2 300m 2:07.0 171 888 20
1:16.4 600m 2:07.3 170 883 21
1:16.3 900m 2:07.1 170 885 21
1:16.3 1,200m 2:07.1 170 885 21
1:16.0 1,500m 2:06.6 172 892 21
0:59.9 1,800m 1:39.8 352 1510 29
1:20.8 2,100m 2:14.6 143 793 21
1:20.5 2,400m 2:14.1 145 798 22
1:19.8 2,700m 2:13.0 149 812 22
1:19.7 3,000m 2:12.8 149 813 22
1:00.0 3,300m 1:40.0 350 1504 30
1:19.9 3,600m 2:13.1 148 810 22
1:20.5 3,900m 2:14.1 145 798 21
0:27.3 4,000m 2:16.5 138 773 20

After WU I paused about 5-10min (arrival training mates), then started with pistols. felt very smooth, better than normal, joints and tendons felt more flexible.

Don't know how it will work for 2k, and as I did 8x500-intervals on Monday my legs were a bit tired during the whole training, but I'll definitely try it next TT.
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg (6ft1/220lb)
LP: 1:08, 100m: 14.4, 1': 384m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 18:03, 30': 8107m, 30R20: 8010m 10k: 37:22
60': 15661m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since 2018-06, 3mm in Nov19

ukaserex
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by ukaserex » September 11th, 2019, 9:08 am

You guys might think I'm crazy, but my warm-up is 2 rounds of fish game. After the 8 minutes, I'm not breathing terribly hard, but I have a light sweat, and feel good, ready to go.
100M - 16.1 1 Min - 370 500M - 1:25.1 1k - 3:10.2 4:00 - 1216 2k 6:37.0 5k 17:58.8 6k - 21:54.1 30 Min. - 8130 10k - 37:49.7 60:00 - 15604
1/2 Marathon 1:28:44.3 Marathon 2:59:36

5'10"
215 lbs
53 years old

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jackarabit
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by jackarabit » September 11th, 2019, 11:59 am

Martin’s wp b4 strength workout—>

Image

More conservative than expected, Martin. If you have not tried the Eddy Fletcher wp, this is a good time to compare and evaluate. The pdf pacing chart, link below, is self-explanatory.

https://www.rowingmachineking.com/wp-co ... pdf?x58040
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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MartinSH4321
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by MartinSH4321 » September 11th, 2019, 12:48 pm

jackarabit wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 11:59 am
Martin’s wp b4 strength workout—>

Image

More conservative than expected, Martin. If you have not tried the Eddy Fletcher wp, this is a good time to compare and evaluate. The pdf pacing chart, link below, is self-explanatory.

https://www.rowingmachineking.com/wp-co ... pdf?x58040
Thanks for the link Jack, I didn't know this chart. My plan was to just do 2 300m pieces at planned 2k speed and the rest at easy pace, felt good, but I'll have a closer look at Eddy's :)
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg (6ft1/220lb)
LP: 1:08, 100m: 14.4, 1': 384m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 18:03, 30': 8107m, 30R20: 8010m 10k: 37:22
60': 15661m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since 2018-06, 3mm in Nov19

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jackarabit
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by jackarabit » September 11th, 2019, 1:31 pm

The EF is pace and rate-prescribed—very controlled by design. Progression from low UT2 to TR power to a burst at race pace assures that even the warmup gets a warmup. :P
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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hjs
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by hjs » September 11th, 2019, 2:16 pm

jackarabit wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 1:31 pm
The EF is pace and rate-prescribed—very controlled by design. Progression from low UT2 to TR power to a burst at race pace assures that even the warmup gets a warmup. :P
Tried it years ago. Really disliked it, way to fast to my liking, sprintertype rowers will need 15 min to recover if not more. :wink:

Found it more a training piece.

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jackarabit
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by jackarabit » September 11th, 2019, 2:50 pm

hjs wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 2:16 pm
jackarabit wrote:
September 11th, 2019, 1:31 pm
The EF is pace and rate-prescribed—very controlled by design. Progression from low UT2 to TR power to a burst at race pace assures that even the warmup gets a warmup. :P
Tried it years ago. Really disliked it, way to fast to my liking, sprintertype rowers will need 15 min to recover if not more. :wink:

Found it more a training piece.
My threshold UT2 power is 84 watts, ceiling 104, about what it takes to lie in bed and move my toes. For thriving on the EF, unexcelled weakness is paradoxically an advantage as the steps on my power staircase are baby steps. :lol:
There are two types of people in this world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data

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RR
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by RR » September 26th, 2019, 3:42 am

For one off time trials I Row steady for 3000m - around 2:08 pace to get warmed up.
Then I do 4-5 x 100m sprints with 1 min between, each one getting progressively faster with the last one being just about flat out.
Then I get myself composed and go for it.
In my racing days, I have done “fast” times with no warm up whatsoever at 2000 British Champs did 6:42.8 from cold!
If I am doing intervals, I still do 3000m warm up and then take the first couple of reps steady using that as an extension of my warm up then try and get each interval progressively fast with the last one going “balls out”
63 going on 64. One time full on erger. Now Erging and BikeErging.
LWT is the norm.
6:38.7 was a longtime ago

H2O
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Re: Question on warm up.

Post by H2O » September 26th, 2019, 6:11 pm

10 mins easy bike, some easy rowing (1K), then some easy weightlifting: rowing motion, one set, 5 reps of 8, lats the same, 20 squat jumps.
Then row 500m, some technical exercises: arms only, arms and back, legs only, legs and back,
all with significant pressure, then full on (1K pace) for about 8-10 strokes a couple of times. Then 2K at about 5K pace.
20 mins break.
Then the piece.

I now do some easy weightlifting before almost every rowing workout, no other weightlifting.

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