What Training Have You Done Today?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 9147
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by hjs » June 30th, 2020, 3:17 am

MartinSH4321 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 2:05 am

"aerobically OK" - what understatement! :lol:
The sub3 1k is also a big goal for me. Bad for me, the 1k needs both strong aerobic and unaerobic systems (unless you're an absolute strength or fitness monster) and fitness is only slowly improving. Your fitness is more than sufficient, and the 1'R20 pieces prove that you also have a strong stroke, you'll soon hit this target!
Think the 1k is indeed the worse distance. Raw power is enough for 500, but not for 1k. Super aerobic fitness is enough for 2k, but won’t make you fast enough. Its not for nothing you more or less never see Toprower pull a 1k. Rate restricted yes, intervals ofcourse. But a real, fullblown flatout out 1k. Never seen it. It must be among the things that hurt the most in sports. And people who say/think otherwise, either don’t go 100% or don’t have the raw power anaerobic strenght to reach absolute max lactic levels.

MartinSH4321
10k Poster
Posts: 1533
Joined: October 10th, 2018, 6:43 am

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by MartinSH4321 » June 30th, 2020, 6:31 am

hjs wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 3:17 am
MartinSH4321 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 2:05 am

"aerobically OK" - what understatement! :lol:
The sub3 1k is also a big goal for me. Bad for me, the 1k needs both strong aerobic and unaerobic systems (unless you're an absolute strength or fitness monster) and fitness is only slowly improving. Your fitness is more than sufficient, and the 1'R20 pieces prove that you also have a strong stroke, you'll soon hit this target!
Think the 1k is indeed the worse distance. Raw power is enough for 500, but not for 1k. Super aerobic fitness is enough for 2k, but won’t make you fast enough. Its not for nothing you more or less never see Toprower pull a 1k. Rate restricted yes, intervals ofcourse. But a real, fullblown flatout out 1k. Never seen it. It must be among the things that hurt the most in sports. And people who say/think otherwise, either don’t go 100% or don’t have the raw power anaerobic strenght to reach absolute max lactic levels.
I'm pretty sure I'm in the "haven't done a 100% effort" category :)
I would say there are some top rowers that did it (unless you only meant sub 5:45 PB rower), think of Sam Loch (WR), Phil Clapp, and recently Cameron Buchan (ca. 2:45), maybe also Jason Marshall (ca. 2:45 and 5:50).
The lactic levels are higher at 1k than 2k for sure, but if I remember right the highest levels are at the ca. 1' efforts like 1k track cycling (I once read that elite sprinters reach lactic levels up to 23 which would kill normal people). So I still think it's subjective what's the hardest distance - less lactate but longer, high lactate and medium duration or extreme lactate but short. For me the mental part makes the 2k the hardest distance atm, but maybe I'll change my mind after a (close to) 100% effort :wink:
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg
RHR: 43, MHR: 174
LP: 1:06, 100m: 14.0, 1': 387m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 17:58, 30': 8130m, 30R20: 8088m 10k: 37:05
60': 15779m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since Jun18, 4mm in Apr20

User avatar
hjs
Marathon Poster
Posts: 9147
Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by hjs » June 30th, 2020, 6:48 am

MartinSH4321 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 6:31 am
hjs wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 3:17 am
MartinSH4321 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 2:05 am

"aerobically OK" - what understatement! :lol:
The sub3 1k is also a big goal for me. Bad for me, the 1k needs both strong aerobic and unaerobic systems (unless you're an absolute strength or fitness monster) and fitness is only slowly improving. Your fitness is more than sufficient, and the 1'R20 pieces prove that you also have a strong stroke, you'll soon hit this target!
Think the 1k is indeed the worse distance. Raw power is enough for 500, but not for 1k. Super aerobic fitness is enough for 2k, but won’t make you fast enough. Its not for nothing you more or less never see Toprower pull a 1k. Rate restricted yes, intervals ofcourse. But a real, fullblown flatout out 1k. Never seen it. It must be among the things that hurt the most in sports. And people who say/think otherwise, either don’t go 100% or don’t have the raw power anaerobic strenght to reach absolute max lactic levels.
I'm pretty sure I'm in the "haven't done a 100% effort" category :)
I would say there are some top rowers that did it (unless you only meant sub 5:45 PB rower), think of Sam Loch (WR), Phil Clapp, and recently Cameron Buchan (ca. 2:45), maybe also Jason Marshall (ca. 2:45 and 5:50).
The lactic levels are higher at 1k than 2k for sure, but if I remember right the highest levels are at the ca. 1' efforts like 1k track cycling (I once read that elite sprinters reach lactic levels up to 23 which would kill normal people). So I still think it's subjective what's the hardest distance - less lactate but longer, high lactate and medium duration or extreme lactate but short. For me the mental part makes the 2k the hardest distance atm, but maybe I'll change my mind after a (close to) 100% effort :wink:
:wink: those guys are good, but not the absolute best. Or Not 100% trained.

Clapp is of course a pure freak, but really not 100% trained. The 2k Wr s 5k Wr all set by the absolute best and fully trained. The 1k is not. Same for 500.

Re cycling, the K is absolute killing :D Those pure sprinters simply go full on, fly and die. And can,t stand for 10/15 minutes after. Great to see, maybe great to do, just to see how deep you can go.

Subjective, absolutely. But maybe if you look at time, effort and effect, 1/3 min. Efforts are the worse. Super long distances, no matter what sport, also must be horrible.
Once read a story about the Wr holder 24 hour cycling. Or even longer, can’t remember but the picture he was painting was a nightmare at times.

Dangerscouse
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 4023
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Dangerscouse » June 30th, 2020, 7:19 am

Despite still not giving up on a 24hr challenge I imagine it will be an absolute nightmare due to the lack of sleep, lack of appetite for proper nutrition, pain, discomfort, extremely irrational and emotional thoughts etc

I definitely haven't done an all out 1k, but I dont think I'm wired up to go really really deep into the pain cave on shorter distances. I can find more resolve for longer distances and I find a 5k to be a lot more tolerable than a 2k as it's a different type of suffering, but I still need to find more mental strength to battle on and really dig in.
46 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Boris1956
Paddler
Posts: 22
Joined: February 6th, 2016, 8:55 am
Location: GB - near Dorney Lake.

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Boris1956 » June 30th, 2020, 7:23 am

I finished off June with a steady paced 16k at 1.53.8 pace and a 131bpm hr. It's a lot cooler here and whereas last week I was finding it hard to keep below 2.00/500m splits for 16k the 1.53.8 was fairly easy. I suppose I just don't do heat but the difference is quite marked.
I finished with a total of 413,172m for June and a total of 1,295,320m so far for the Covid period.
On a brighter note the venues for 2022-4 WRIC have been announced. They will be Hamburg, Toronto and Prague. Something to keep motivated for. I do hope things will get better.
Born 1956 1m96 115kg. All time PB's 2k 40-50, 6.12.6 5k 17:02.6 10k 35:14.3 30' 8607 60' 16862 Mar 2:44:54.1
50-60, 2k 6.19.9. 60+ 2k 6:41.2 30' 8203 60' 16241

lindsayh
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 3354
Joined: June 23rd, 2013, 3:32 am
Location: Sydney, Australia

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by lindsayh » June 30th, 2020, 7:47 am

MartinSH4321 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 6:31 am
I'm pretty sure I'm in the "haven't done a 100% effort" category :)
The lactic levels are higher at 1k than 2k for sure, but if I remember right the highest levels are at the ca. 1' efforts like 1k track cycling (I once read that elite sprinters reach lactic levels up to 23 which would kill normal people). So I still think it's subjective what's the hardest distance - less lactate but longer, high lactate and medium duration or extreme lactate but short. For me the mental part makes the 2k the hardest distance atm, but maybe I'll change my mind after a (close to) 100% effort
Martin I reckon that I have been to 100% on both the 1k and 2k (about 5 years ago probably) and I am not pretending in any way to be in the same class as the beasts above but the 1k was pretty fast. I did get to a lactate of 25 on a VO2 max a couple of years ago too without dying so I guess that means that the anerobic part is true. The 1k is very very hard indeed and IME more unpleasant than the 2.... but very satisfying to get right.
Lindsay
68yo 91kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

KeithT
10k Poster
Posts: 1046
Joined: February 5th, 2018, 12:41 pm

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by KeithT » June 30th, 2020, 8:26 am

Dangerscouse wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 7:19 am
Despite still not giving up on a 24hr challenge I imagine it will be an absolute nightmare due to the lack of sleep, lack of appetite for proper nutrition, pain, discomfort, extremely irrational and emotional thoughts etc

I definitely haven't done an all out 1k, but I dont think I'm wired up to go really really deep into the pain cave on shorter distances. I can find more resolve for longer distances and I find a 5k to be a lot more tolerable than a 2k as it's a different type of suffering, but I still need to find more mental strength to battle on and really dig in.
Agree with this. The 1K is probably my best distance and I gave 100% effort each time I have went below 3:00 and it is painful but similar to 2K for me. The longer distances are a different kind of pain for me and more mental. At the end of an all out 1K my legs literally quit working where on longer rows I never really get to body failure.
52 yo, 6'3" 200#
PBs (all since turning 50):
1 min - 373m, 500m - 1:21.9, 1K - 2:59.8, 4 min - 1265m, 2K - 6:29.4, 5K - 17:27, 30 min - 8277m, 10K - 36:30, 60 min - 16110, HM - 1:20:17, FM - 2:47:46

MartinSH4321
10k Poster
Posts: 1533
Joined: October 10th, 2018, 6:43 am

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by MartinSH4321 » June 30th, 2020, 8:47 am

lindsayh wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 7:47 am
MartinSH4321 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 6:31 am
I'm pretty sure I'm in the "haven't done a 100% effort" category :)
The lactic levels are higher at 1k than 2k for sure, but if I remember right the highest levels are at the ca. 1' efforts like 1k track cycling (I once read that elite sprinters reach lactic levels up to 23 which would kill normal people). So I still think it's subjective what's the hardest distance - less lactate but longer, high lactate and medium duration or extreme lactate but short. For me the mental part makes the 2k the hardest distance atm, but maybe I'll change my mind after a (close to) 100% effort
Martin I reckon that I have been to 100% on both the 1k and 2k (about 5 years ago probably) and I am not pretending in any way to be in the same class as the beasts above but the 1k was pretty fast. I did get to a lactate of 25 on a VO2 max a couple of years ago too without dying so I guess that means that the anerobic part is true. The 1k is very very hard indeed and IME more unpleasant than the 2.... but very satisfying to get right.
Oh, I didn't question this lactate level as Robert Förstemann (elite track cyclist) said this in an interview. Did a quick google search, looks like >25 is extremely high (and incredibly painful for sure :) )
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg
RHR: 43, MHR: 174
LP: 1:06, 100m: 14.0, 1': 387m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 17:58, 30': 8130m, 30R20: 8088m 10k: 37:05
60': 15779m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since Jun18, 4mm in Apr20

User avatar
Gammmmo
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 2215
Joined: March 26th, 2016, 1:12 pm

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Gammmmo » June 30th, 2020, 8:55 am

ROWER: 3K comprising (2.5K w/u + 100m@15:9s + 100m@16.1s + 250m@1:24.0)
SQUATS: 5x5x100kg
DEFICIT DEADS (hex)
MartinSH4321 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 8:47 am
Oh, I didn't question this lactate level as Robert Förstemann (elite track cyclist) said this in an interview. Did a quick google search, looks like >25 is extremely high (and incredibly painful for sure :) )
The guy with the giant quads? Still not quite Tom Platz though. :D

(yes, I know I'm comparing apples to oranges really)
Paul, 48M, 5'11" 80kg (sprint PBs HWT), ex bike time trialler.
LP=1:16, 100m=15.9s, 1min=350m Image
Targets: 355m+ 1min, 1:27(500m), 3:11(1K), bench 2 plates, squat 3 plates, deadlift 4 plates

Erg on!

MartinSH4321
10k Poster
Posts: 1533
Joined: October 10th, 2018, 6:43 am

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by MartinSH4321 » June 30th, 2020, 8:58 am

Gammmmo wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 8:55 am
ROWER: 3K comprising (2.5K w/u + 100m@15:9s + 100m@16.1s + 250m@1:24.0)
SQUATS: 5x5x100kg
DEFICIT DEADS (hex)
MartinSH4321 wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 8:47 am
Oh, I didn't question this lactate level as Robert Förstemann (elite track cyclist) said this in an interview. Did a quick google search, looks like >25 is extremely high (and incredibly painful for sure :) )
The guy with the giant quads? Still not quite Tom Platz though. :D

(yes, I know I'm comparing apples to oranges really)
Nickname "Quadzilla" ! :lol:
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg
RHR: 43, MHR: 174
LP: 1:06, 100m: 14.0, 1': 387m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 17:58, 30': 8130m, 30R20: 8088m 10k: 37:05
60': 15779m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since Jun18, 4mm in Apr20

User avatar
hobbit
2k Poster
Posts: 240
Joined: March 13th, 2018, 10:22 am
Location: Annecy, France

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by hobbit » June 30th, 2020, 12:53 pm

I'm now one month into my comeback, but I just had to take a 10 day break due to a muscle pull in my ribs. I'm not even sure how I got it. Today, I sat down on the rower and decided to do a hard 5k on a whim. Almost changed my mind after 1k, but got my oomph back and carried on to the bitter end.

21:55.1 5,000m 2:11.5 154 829 24 141
4:23.4 1,000m 2:11.7 153 827 25 126
4:28.7 2,000m 2:14.3 144 796 24 136
4:22.5 3,000m 2:11.2 155 832 25 141
4:22.3 4,000m 2:11.1 155 833 24 147
4:18.2 5,000m 2:09.1 163 859 26 158

Good enough for just below average in the 60-69 LWT rankings, so no big deal. Still, it's early days. Note the final heart rate of 158, one of the highest values I've ever measured, so I clearly wasn't hanging around. Need a few more weeks of putting money in the bank before adding intervals and trying to get close to my PB's.
M 65 163cm/5' 4" 57kg/126lb
2k 8:16 (2018) -- 5k 21:03 (2018) -- 30' 7038m (2018) -- 10k 43:19 (2018) -- 60' 13475m (2019) -- HM 1:34:04 (2019)

KeithT
10k Poster
Posts: 1046
Joined: February 5th, 2018, 12:41 pm

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by KeithT » June 30th, 2020, 1:28 pm

Failed CTC challenge today but I am counting it as a positive.......because I listened to my body which I rarely do. There is a difference between being mentally tough and knowing when its a bad idea to do a high intensity workout and I am usually guilty of not following that.

Today I planned to do the CTC knowing my team already had a boat in the top 5 and to just make it into that boat I would need a great day. After some good rows and a hard upper-body weights workout yesterday I was feeling beat up, sore and tired. So, decided I would do a quick warmup and then set the monitor up for the challenge and do the first interval as planned just in case my body surprised me and I felt OK and then decide if worth continuing. Well, doing the first interval as planned (7 minutes at 1:41.9 pace) was harder than expected and my back was feeling tight so decided to not push for the challenge and then just did some other interval stuff at less than max intensity.

Usually I would be mad at something like this but think I made a good choice today - that's my story and I am sticking to it :D
52 yo, 6'3" 200#
PBs (all since turning 50):
1 min - 373m, 500m - 1:21.9, 1K - 2:59.8, 4 min - 1265m, 2K - 6:29.4, 5K - 17:27, 30 min - 8277m, 10K - 36:30, 60 min - 16110, HM - 1:20:17, FM - 2:47:46

User avatar
sjors
2k Poster
Posts: 261
Joined: July 3rd, 2016, 3:50 am
Location: Netherlands
Contact:

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by sjors » June 30th, 2020, 1:39 pm

KeithT wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 1:28 pm
Failed CTC challenge today but I am counting it as a positive.......because I listened to my body which I rarely do. There is a difference between being mentally tough and knowing when its a bad idea to do a high intensity workout and I am usually guilty of not following that.

Today I planned to do the CTC knowing my team already had a boat in the top 5 and to just make it into that boat I would need a great day. After some good rows and a hard upper-body weights workout yesterday I was feeling beat up, sore and tired. So, decided I would do a quick warmup and then set the monitor up for the challenge and do the first interval as planned just in case my body surprised me and I felt OK and then decide if worth continuing. Well, doing the first interval as planned (7 minutes at 1:41.9 pace) was harder than expected and my back was feeling tight so decided to not push for the challenge and then just did some other interval stuff at less than max intensity.

Usually I would be mad at something like this but think I made a good choice today - that's my story and I am sticking to it :D
Good for you
Siebe Jongebloed
57/M/1,92/98 kg (getting back into shape again)
Image

Dangerscouse
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 4023
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Dangerscouse » June 30th, 2020, 1:50 pm

hobbit wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 12:53 pm
I'm now one month into my comeback, but I just had to take a 10 day break due to a muscle pull in my ribs. I'm not even sure how I got it. Today, I sat down on the rower and decided to do a hard 5k on a whim. Almost changed my mind after 1k, but got my oomph back and carried on to the bitter end.

21:55.1 5,000m 2:11.5 154 829 24 141
4:23.4 1,000m 2:11.7 153 827 25 126
4:28.7 2,000m 2:14.3 144 796 24 136
4:22.5 3,000m 2:11.2 155 832 25 141
4:22.3 4,000m 2:11.1 155 833 24 147
4:18.2 5,000m 2:09.1 163 859 26 158

Good enough for just below average in the 60-69 LWT rankings, so no big deal. Still, it's early days. Note the final heart rate of 158, one of the highest values I've ever measured, so I clearly wasn't hanging around. Need a few more weeks of putting money in the bank before adding intervals and trying to get close to my PB's.
10 days off will have taken a big chunk out of your comeback progress, so this is a nice session.
46 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Dangerscouse
Half Marathon Poster
Posts: 4023
Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
Location: Liverpool, England

Re: What Training Have You Done Today?

Post by Dangerscouse » June 30th, 2020, 1:54 pm

KeithT wrote:
June 30th, 2020, 1:28 pm
Failed CTC challenge today but I am counting it as a positive.......because I listened to my body which I rarely do. There is a difference between being mentally tough and knowing when its a bad idea to do a high intensity workout and I am usually guilty of not following that.

Today I planned to do the CTC knowing my team already had a boat in the top 5 and to just make it into that boat I would need a great day. After some good rows and a hard upper-body weights workout yesterday I was feeling beat up, sore and tired. So, decided I would do a quick warmup and then set the monitor up for the challenge and do the first interval as planned just in case my body surprised me and I felt OK and then decide if worth continuing. Well, doing the first interval as planned (7 minutes at 1:41.9 pace) was harder than expected and my back was feeling tight so decided to not push for the challenge and then just did some other interval stuff at less than max intensity.

Usually I would be mad at something like this but think I made a good choice today - that's my story and I am sticking to it :D
Sounds like you did make the right decision. It's automatic to keep going harder for the rest of the reps and a tight back probably would have become a problem, especially with the one minute rep.

Gotta live to fight another day and next month's CTC: 2112m
46 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:27; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 36:21 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:40; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Post Reply