Stroke rate variability

[mromero680]

I've been watching some videos to check my form (C2, Dark Horse) and I'm questioning my stroke rate. The video that really got me thinking was the NYT writer who rowed against a real rower-what a difference (link below). As I get older (will be 58 in December) I'm wondering if I'm compensating for losing power by increasing my stroke rate. Here are my questions for the forum:

Age 57
SPM comfortable pace 24 (kind of "sweet spot" I guess)
SPM 2k all out 30-32

Thanks for sharing.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/25/well ... idler.html

[Cyclist2]

Don't see a question in there, but 24 spm is a very reasonable rate. It all depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you want to build power, use a slower rate, for an aerobic long distance workout, 24-28 is good, for all out 1 minute sprints (like the article you linked) the rate will be over 40. I'm 69 and most of my workouts are in the 20-26 rate range.

The drag factor you use will affect how hard or easy the rate feels. Most people use a DF of around 125 + or -, but that's a personal preference. The power you generate, irrespective of rate or DF, is how hard you pull the handle. it's up to you.

Have fun!

[mromero680]

Thanks for the reply. I'm really trying to determine if stroke rate has to increase as we age to compensate for a decrease in power so questions are age, steady state stroke rate and all out stroke rate.

[MartinSH4321]

@ NYT rower: these 2 efforts aren't comparable at all. The writer did an all out effort, for Olli this was more like a warmup and he didn't need to rate higher, at a max effort he would rate +50 for sure and his pace would be much faster.

[Allan Olesen]

so questions are age, steady state stroke rate and all out stroke rate.

Those are still not questions.

[lindsayh]

Age is not too important but srate will be higher if you are lwt and trying to go faster - your pace is a function of power (watts per stroke) and your stroke rate
Drag factor is really important and stay 110-130 range - it is good if you have found that sweet spot - just leave it there.
Steady state longer pieces should be between 20-26 in general and if your are erging for fitness then that will be where you spend most of your time
If you are doing a 2k TT or race then >30 is needed
If you are sprinting shorter pieces then you will stroke faster

lots of good information here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=185257

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks for the reply. I'm really trying to determine if stroke rate has to increase as we age to compensate for a decrease in power so questions are age, steady state stroke rate and all out stroke rate.

I'm not sure that you will lose significant power as you get older. You will lose some strength as you age, but in terms of stroke rate I find that you perform best at the stroke rate that you practice the most.

I feel very comfortable at r28-30, but if I do too much r18-20 I will lose some efficiency at the higher rates, which returns with a few sessions of higher rates.

I know I'm younger than you but I have found in recent years any loss of power is due to environmental reasons eg heat / humidity, lack of practice or not being bothered.

If you want to maintain power and lower stroke rates, practice and prioritise them and I doubt you will see much drop off in power, but we are all physiologically different so there is no golden rule for how much power you will lose over time. Lindsay is a great example of this.

[mitchel674]

My wife and I really enjoyed that article and video when it first came out in the NYT. It took a while to explain to her that the competition really wasn't even that close. The different ratings tell the real story.

As to the OP's question, doesn't it really depend what you trying to accomplish with each session?

Long, steady state rows? I try to keep my rate at 20-22 with the aim of have a long, powerful stroke.

500mm time trial? Stroke rate as hard and fast as you can.

2k time trial? For me 28-30spm but many will rate higher.

I've been doing some interesting stroke rate ladders recently using Eric Murray videos on youtube. It's an interesting way to look back at your data and try to find your most efficient rating.

[hjs]

Thanks for the reply. I'm really trying to determine if stroke rate has to increase as we age to compensate for a decrease in power so questions are age, steady state stroke rate and all out stroke rate.

Would more expect the opposite, older people tend to slow down rating wise. As races that is certainly the case.

[ampire]

I was using a similar SPM a few months ago and gradually decreased my rating and now I am more comfortable rowing around 19 SPM and prefer it over higher SPM. My force curve looks much better as a result and I think my form is much better. As such I think it is worth gradually lowering your stroke rating for a typical steady state workout, but it takes some learning for to sequence a slower movement smoothly.

[mromero680]

Thanks Ampire. As a couple posters helpfully pointed out, I think I'm dancing around the "question" because I know the answer! I've always trained to increase my stroke rate since that results in a faster pace and I discount my workouts that end up >2:00/500. The slower stroke rate takes a lot more concentration for me to hold a decent pace but that just proves it's a weak spot that I need to work on. I've started trying to follow the tip I saw on Dark Horse to explode off of the foot stretchers and take my time on the recovery, a 2:1 ratio with the recovery taking twice as long as the catch.

[Dangerscouse]

Thanks Ampire. As a couple posters helpfully pointed out, I think I'm dancing around the "question" because I know the answer! I've always trained to increase my stroke rate since that results in a faster pace and I discount my workouts that end up >2:00/500. The slower stroke rate takes a lot more concentration for me to hold a decent pace but that just proves it's a weak spot that I need to work on. I've started trying to follow the tip I saw on Dark Horse to explode off of the foot stretchers and take my time on the recovery, a 2:1 ratio with the recovery taking twice as long as the catch.

Don't underestimate how much your breathing sequence needs to coordinate with the lower strokes too.

There's a natural tendency to panic when you can't breathe properly and it doesn't sound much, but there's quite a notable difference between r20 and r24 in terms of when to breathe and how much effort it takes to maintain the same pace. You will naturally compensate for it by lowering pace if you maintain the same stroke rate until it becomes comfortable.

As a good example, there is a rower on Instagram who regularly rows at circa 2:09 for his longer distances but he has done a 17:01 5k recently. Without him going slow for his training, he arguably wouldn't have gone so quick on the 5k.

Your training is your bread and butter: the jam is the TTs.