Pete Plan Thread

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Dangerscouse
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Dangerscouse » November 20th, 2020, 6:34 am

btlifter wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 7:29 pm
Hello all,

I have been lurking on these boards for a while and have learned an enormous amount (on my good days I even try to adhere to the things I learned!).I had been following my own training plan for a while, but the more I read about Pete's Plan the more I realized that it is similar (but much more thoughtful and structured) to what I had already been doing. So, I took the leap this week and began Pete's Plan! I'm looking forward to engaging in this thread!

-Cam
Some great PBs Cam, but I'd say that your 5k and HM are low hanging fruit compared to your 2k, 60 mins and FM PBs.

Good luck with the PP, I have seen some great improvements from others so it definitely works

You can
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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max_ratcliffe
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by max_ratcliffe » November 20th, 2020, 8:29 am

btlifter wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 7:29 pm
Hello all,

I have been lurking on these boards for a while and have learned an enormous amount (on my good days I even try to adhere to the things I learned!).I had been following my own training plan for a while, but the more I read about Pete's Plan the more I realized that it is similar (but much more thoughtful and structured) to what I had already been doing. So, I took the leap this week and began Pete's Plan! I'm looking forward to engaging in this thread!

-Cam
Welcome Cam,

Some amazing PBs there, especially the 1k.

The lurking aside, what's your background?
hjs wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 5:20 am

Your 1k really stands out. Good going!
How good is 2:51, Henry? Is it "you need to get a rowing coach and start taking this very seriously" good?
50 HWT
PBs: 1'=328m; 500m=1:34.0; 1k=3:25:1; 2k=7:16.5; 5k=19:44; 6k=23:24; 30'=7534m; 10k=40.28; 60'=14621m; HM=1:27:46

2020 goals:
1k - sub 3:30; 30' > 7500m; 60' > 14600m; HM sub 1:29.00
2k - sub 7:15; 5k - sub 19:20; 10k - sub 40:00;

btlifter
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by btlifter » November 20th, 2020, 9:37 am

Thank you all for the kind welcome!

My listed #s are all my personal bests, but they aren't all a fair representation of my current capability. My 1k was recent and all out effort. But, most of the other numbers were either "only" around 95% effort (eg. 2k, marathon) or were recorded a little while ago (eg. 500m). I am motivated to know that there are a lot of opportunities for relatively easy improvements at several distances.

About my background: It's varied. I played basketball growing up, but later transitioned to competitive powerlifting. After several years (and about 80kg weight gain) I retired from powerlifting, lost the majority of that gained weight, and - until recently - had been primarily focused on training for ultramarathons. I love ultrarunning, but I'm certainly not built for it and am a notch or two below mediocre!
32, 6'4, 104kg
60s: 395m
500: 1:25.8
1k: 2:51.6
2k: 6:25.5
5k: 16:28.3
60min: 16721m
HM: 1:19:20.6
Ma: 2:47:47

btlifter
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by btlifter » November 20th, 2020, 10:50 am

Addendum to m previous post*

I have a second "real" pb. I just pulled 5k and emptied the tank. 100% effort. 16:28.3
32, 6'4, 104kg
60s: 395m
500: 1:25.8
1k: 2:51.6
2k: 6:25.5
5k: 16:28.3
60min: 16721m
HM: 1:19:20.6
Ma: 2:47:47

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hjs
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Location: Amstelveen the netherlands

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by hjs » November 20th, 2020, 11:34 am

max_ratcliffe wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 8:29 am
btlifter wrote:
November 19th, 2020, 7:29 pm
Hello all,

I have been lurking on these boards for a while and have learned an enormous amount (on my good days I even try to adhere to the things I learned!).I had been following my own training plan for a while, but the more I read about Pete's Plan the more I realized that it is similar (but much more thoughtful and structured) to what I had already been doing. So, I took the leap this week and began Pete's Plan! I'm looking forward to engaging in this thread!

-Cam
Welcome Cam,

Some amazing PBs there, especially the 1k.

The lurking aside, what's your background?
hjs wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 5:20 am

Your 1k really stands out. Good going!
How good is 2:51, Henry? Is it "you need to get a rowing coach and start taking this very seriously" good?
Thats looking at 6.00 territory. But for that the longer needs to be picked. 2.51 is getting serious good.

Dangerscouse
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Dangerscouse » November 20th, 2020, 11:36 am

btlifter wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 10:50 am
Addendum to m previous post*

I have a second "real" pb. I just pulled 5k and emptied the tank. 100% effort. 16:28.3
:shock: that's one helluva result and jump in PB!! 👏👏💪💪
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

Dangerscouse
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Dangerscouse » November 20th, 2020, 11:41 am

hjs wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 11:34 am
Thats looking at 6.00 territory. But for that the longer needs to be picked. 2.51 is getting serious good.
I have no idea why, but that 1k didn't register with me as to quite how good it is until now.
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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hjs
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Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by hjs » November 20th, 2020, 11:48 am

Dangerscouse wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 11:41 am
hjs wrote:
November 20th, 2020, 11:34 am
Thats looking at 6.00 territory. But for that the longer needs to be picked. 2.51 is getting serious good.
I have no idea why, but that 1k didn't register with me as to quite how good it is until now.
A difference of 5/6 seconds on pace between 1 and 2 is common. Pure sprinters more, but 6.10 is almost certainly doable with 2.51

btlifter
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by btlifter » November 21st, 2020, 8:00 pm

Hello again veterans and experts. I'm curious about Drag Factor:

I have observed that I am consistently faster (and more comfortable) when I row at higher drag factors than what Itypically see recommended. I assume that this is - at least in part - because I am much more "strong" than I am "fast". Generally, if I view workouts of folks who have similar times to mine their s/m is significantly higher, and df significantly lower. Part of me assumes that recommended dfs are likely heavily influenced by otw rowers trying to replicate water conditions, as opposed to being overly concerned with what actually optimizes their performance on the erg. On the other hand, I'm mindful that I'm biased and may just be looking for explanations that support my own inclinations!

Anyway, I guess my question is, to what degree is df a "find what works best for you" sort of thing, vs. a "there is a 'correct' range, and if that's not optimal for you right now, you need to fix your form" sort of thing.

Thanks!
32, 6'4, 104kg
60s: 395m
500: 1:25.8
1k: 2:51.6
2k: 6:25.5
5k: 16:28.3
60min: 16721m
HM: 1:19:20.6
Ma: 2:47:47

robbiep
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Location: North Wales, GB

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by robbiep » November 22nd, 2020, 2:25 am

There is no 'correct' DF.

Bigger, heavier people usually find that they can perform better, or that the rower 'feels' better, at a higher DF.
For smaller lighter people, the lower DF usually suits them better.

Personally, I rowed the Scottish virtual champs yesterday with a DF of 148 - it suits me, I like the 'feel' of it. If I have the DF lower than 130 it feel like I'm trying to chase the flywheel to put any extra speed into it. Go over 170 and it seems like I'm trying to pull my shoulders out to get it up to speed all the time.

Feel free to experiment. If it works for you, then go for it
https://log.concept2.com/profile/41592/log

51 MWT M
50+ PBs : (recent in red)
100m 17.0 / 500m 1:36.3 / 1k 3:32.2 / 2k 7:39.0 / 5k 19:59.3 / 6k 24:36.7 / 10k 41:36.4
HM 1:30:24.6 / 1 min 310m / 30 min 7312m / 60 min 14124m

MartinSH4321
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Posts: 1984
Joined: October 10th, 2018, 6:43 am

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by MartinSH4321 » November 22nd, 2020, 2:38 am

btlifter wrote:
November 21st, 2020, 8:00 pm
Hello again veterans and experts. I'm curious about Drag Factor:

I have observed that I am consistently faster (and more comfortable) when I row at higher drag factors than what Itypically see recommended. I assume that this is - at least in part - because I am much more "strong" than I am "fast". Generally, if I view workouts of folks who have similar times to mine their s/m is significantly higher, and df significantly lower. Part of me assumes that recommended dfs are likely heavily influenced by otw rowers trying to replicate water conditions, as opposed to being overly concerned with what actually optimizes their performance on the erg. On the other hand, I'm mindful that I'm biased and may just be looking for explanations that support my own inclinations!

Anyway, I guess my question is, to what degree is df a "find what works best for you" sort of thing, vs. a "there is a 'correct' range, and if that's not optimal for you right now, you need to fix your form" sort of thing.

Thanks!
How big is the difference in DF and at what distances? There's no "one size fits all" and some prefer higher drags than others, but big differences in DF CAN indicate tequnical issues. You can post a vid so experienced rowers here can have a look.
Re strength vs speed: I have the same "issue" at sprint distances and use very high drags (max for 100 and 1', 180 for 500m). Experimenting with drag can help to find the sweet spot, and and little changes per week work better than big leaps from one day to another.
Can't wait to see you doing a 100% 500m, with your strength, height and fitness you must have incredible potential :)
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg
RHR: 43, MHR: 174
LP: 1:06, 100m: 14.0, 1': 387m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 17:53, 30': 8237m, 30R20: 8088m 10k: 36:51
60': 15779m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since Jun18, 5mm in Aug20

Dangerscouse
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Location: Liverpool, England

Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by Dangerscouse » November 22nd, 2020, 2:43 am

btlifter wrote:
November 21st, 2020, 8:00 pm
Hello again veterans and experts. I'm curious about Drag Factor:

I have observed that I am consistently faster (and more comfortable) when I row at higher drag factors than what Itypically see recommended. I assume that this is - at least in part - because I am much more "strong" than I am "fast". Generally, if I view workouts of folks who have similar times to mine their s/m is significantly higher, and df significantly lower. Part of me assumes that recommended dfs are likely heavily influenced by otw rowers trying to replicate water conditions, as opposed to being overly concerned with what actually optimizes their performance on the erg. On the other hand, I'm mindful that I'm biased and may just be looking for explanations that support my own inclinations!

Anyway, I guess my question is, to what degree is df a "find what works best for you" sort of thing, vs. a "there is a 'correct' range, and if that's not optimal for you right now, you need to fix your form" sort of thing.

Thanks!
Drag is very subjective and imo, it's only a means to an end for you to maximise your performance.

There is a possibility that, with enough practice, you may feel better at lower drag, but you may not. I have used a big range of drag factors over the years and I have recently settled on 120ish as my preference, but that's what feels right for me. As you progress maybe have a play around, and slower lower the drag to see what it feels like?
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

Instagram: stuwenman

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hjs
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by hjs » November 22nd, 2020, 6:08 am

btlifter wrote:
November 21st, 2020, 8:00 pm
Hello again veterans and experts. I'm curious about Drag Factor:

I have observed that I am consistently faster (and more comfortable) when I row at higher drag factors than what Itypically see recommended. I assume that this is - at least in part - because I am much more "strong" than I am "fast". Generally, if I view workouts of folks who have similar times to mine their s/m is significantly higher, and df significantly lower. Part of me assumes that recommended dfs are likely heavily influenced by otw rowers trying to replicate water conditions, as opposed to being overly concerned with what actually optimizes their performance on the erg. On the other hand, I'm mindful that I'm biased and may just be looking for explanations that support my own inclinations!

Anyway, I guess my question is, to what degree is df a "find what works best for you" sort of thing, vs. a "there is a 'correct' range, and if that's not optimal for you right now, you need to fix your form" sort of thing.

Thanks!
Think its mostly a technique matter and lack of fitness. Your pb s are very much out of wack. Your 1k is very strong, all other stuff is much impressive.
Looking at your longer distances you are so far off pacewise that drag is absolutely not important.
With your height/weight and current 1k and newby status, you have more potential than any other rower here on the forum.

Re drag, you are right thats aimed at otw. Topguys often use 135/40, which is way to high for average Joe.

Re rating, that is 80/90% key, toprowers and could look in that direction are able to rate up. The guys pulling 5.40 times are tall and super fit. And rate 35 and above over 2k and often 30 over 5k.

For, looking at 5k compared to your 1, your fitness is simply weak. Thats the key you need to work on. You should at least be a full minute faster. 17.30 should be half warm up for a guy like you.

In short, you got lots of potential, fitness is the weak link, use a drag that feels right. 120/25 is low. Good for for Joe 7.07 you can handle more.

MartinSH4321
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by MartinSH4321 » November 22nd, 2020, 6:45 am

hjs wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 6:08 am
btlifter wrote:
November 21st, 2020, 8:00 pm
Hello again veterans and experts. I'm curious about Drag Factor:

I have observed that I am consistently faster (and more comfortable) when I row at higher drag factors than what Itypically see recommended. I assume that this is - at least in part - because I am much more "strong" than I am "fast". Generally, if I view workouts of folks who have similar times to mine their s/m is significantly higher, and df significantly lower. Part of me assumes that recommended dfs are likely heavily influenced by otw rowers trying to replicate water conditions, as opposed to being overly concerned with what actually optimizes their performance on the erg. On the other hand, I'm mindful that I'm biased and may just be looking for explanations that support my own inclinations!

Anyway, I guess my question is, to what degree is df a "find what works best for you" sort of thing, vs. a "there is a 'correct' range, and if that's not optimal for you right now, you need to fix your form" sort of thing.

Thanks!
Think its mostly a technique matter and lack of fitness. Your pb s are very much out of wack. Your 1k is very strong, all other stuff is much impressive.
Looking at your longer distances you are so far off pacewise that drag is absolutely not important.
With your height/weight and current 1k and newby status, you have more potential than any other rower here on the forum.

Re drag, you are right thats aimed at otw. Topguys often use 135/40, which is way to high for average Joe.

Re rating, that is 80/90% key, toprowers and could look in that direction are able to rate up. The guys pulling 5.40 times are tall and super fit. And rate 35 and above over 2k and often 30 over 5k.

For, looking at 5k compared to your 1, your fitness is simply weak. Thats the key you need to work on. You should at least be a full minute faster. 17.30 should be half warm up for a guy like you.

In short, you got lots of potential, fitness is the weak link, use a drag that feels right. 120/25 is low. Good for for Joe 7.07 you can handle more.
He did a 16:28 5k Henry, propably not as strong as a 2:51 1k but still very strong, did you misread his PB?
Martin, 1983, Austria, 186cm / 100Kg
RHR: 43, MHR: 174
LP: 1:06, 100m: 14.0, 1': 387m, 500m: 1:21.4
1k: 3:05 2k: 6:43, 5k: 17:53, 30': 8237m, 30R20: 8088m 10k: 36:51
60': 15779m, HM: 1:21:57
rowing since Jun18, 5mm in Aug20

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max_ratcliffe
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Re: Pete Plan Thread

Post by max_ratcliffe » November 22nd, 2020, 7:04 am

MartinSH4321 wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 6:45 am
<>
He did a 16:28 5k Henry, propably not as strong as a 2:51 1k but still very strong, did you misread his PB?
Cam has updated his 5k very recently. It was 17.30ish until this week I think.

It's certainly exciting times for the forum with Cam and MJ and Tom (crazy sprint times!) all recently joined up.
50 HWT
PBs: 1'=328m; 500m=1:34.0; 1k=3:25:1; 2k=7:16.5; 5k=19:44; 6k=23:24; 30'=7534m; 10k=40.28; 60'=14621m; HM=1:27:46

2020 goals:
1k - sub 3:30; 30' > 7500m; 60' > 14600m; HM sub 1:29.00
2k - sub 7:15; 5k - sub 19:20; 10k - sub 40:00;

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