1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

General discussion on Training. How to get better on your erg, how to use your erg to get better at another sport, or anything else about improving your abilities.
Dangerscouse
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by Dangerscouse » November 22nd, 2020, 8:51 am

lifebeginsafterdeath wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 8:10 am
Tks for comment. My thought is until i get the movement down correctly, it would be a waste of time rowing? Shew, as of now, 2k rocks my boat... :lol: ,feeling like i can't row another time once i hit 2k mark. I'm still trying to get the damper setting correct with regards to where it should be for best results and time. At the 110 rate, i am around 5 damper setting but best time is around 4 (97), thats with improper form. Seems with what i am gathering, i need to study videos more and try to apply technique shown. Seems i lean too far back on finish and not forward (body) enough & past vertical on catch? I am going to post some videos once i think i have it correct to confirm? thanks again for help
As Henry says, and it sounds counterintuitive, but you need to slow down to get faster.

How flexible are you? Do you have tight hamstrings and hips? Maybe doing some yoga or stretches will help? You might be too 'congested' to get good movement so you're feeling like you're doing it right as it's the limit of your range. Technique can be surprisingly difficult to really master, as there are very subtle nuances, much like in a deadlift.

Good advice for reaching a rowing goal is to break it down and find where the problem is, and that can mean slowing down, and doing longer distances, to get used to it, and then build up the pace at a longer distance. When you're able to do 5k at a better pace, 2k at a faster pace won't seem so daunting, and you will have demonstrably built up your fitness too.

When you have got a faster 5k, maybe look at doing 1250m at slightly faster than your chosen pace (say 1:59.5), rest one min, then row the remaining 750m at the same pace. If this feels manageable, row 1500m and 500m at the 1:59.5 for the 1500, and then aim for 1:59 for the 500m. Hopefully you will manage it, if not, it will identify the weak points that you need to work on and gives you something to work towards.

This should hopefully give you the confidence that you can go sub 8. Make sure you combine this with other distances, intensities etc as this is just one part of a bigger programme of sessions.

Finally, take care and you're doing great if you've had three heart attacks. The rower is a great way of staying fit but it can be very difficult if you push it too much too soon.
47 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:24; 6k= 21:09; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,428m 60mins= 16,331m HM= 1:18:25; FM= 2:45:49; 50k= 3:21:14; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km

"You reap what you row"

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lifebeginsafterdeath
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by lifebeginsafterdeath » November 22nd, 2020, 9:05 am

shew, will start from beginning & hopefully get form down. With the 500m, i've done a 1:50.2 with form all wrong & that was what i thought to be a slow pace...again, form all wrong. With the 2k & 500m, i've added in "rankings" to see where i stood. Not sure with flexibility? I know losing the 40lb has helped with feeling better but i don't feel i have any flexibility. I will also check into the yoga. Tks agn for insight

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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by hjs » November 22nd, 2020, 9:27 am

lifebeginsafterdeath wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 9:05 am
shew, will start from beginning & hopefully get form down. With the 500m, i've done a 1:50.2 with form all wrong & that was what i thought to be a slow pace...again, form all wrong. With the 2k & 500m, i've added in "rankings" to see where i stood. Not sure with flexibility? I know losing the 40lb has helped with feeling better but i don't feel i have any flexibility. I will also check into the yoga. Tks agn for insight
Re flexibility.

When you are sitting on the erg. Still, not taking about rowing, try to get in the startposition, SHOULDERS beyond your hips, arms fully stretched. This would be the 11 oclock position. If you can do this your are flexible enough.
When I saw your style you simply had a weird moving patern.

That sitting in the 11 oclock you can also do on the ground, no ergo needed.

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lifebeginsafterdeath
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by lifebeginsafterdeath » November 22nd, 2020, 10:18 am

from what i gather, my 11 movement was too far back? I don't feel that would be a problem if that is flexibility? Just i think my 11 was actually around 10? I guess in my mind, i have a hugh clock & felt my 11 position was further back. Once at 11, that would be the finish? Next is recovery? arms stretch out, wrists flat, start to lean forward to 1 o'clock, once wrists above knees, engage legs or go forward bending knees to where shins are vertical which is the catch?

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ampire
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by ampire » November 22nd, 2020, 10:48 am

lifebeginsafterdeath wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:18 am
from what i gather, my 11 movement was too far back? I don't feel that would be a problem if that is flexibility? Just i think my 11 was actually around 10? I guess in my mind, i have a hugh clock & felt my 11 position was further back. Once at 11, that would be the finish? Next is recovery? arms stretch out, wrists flat, start to lean forward to 1 o'clock, once wrists above knees, engage legs or go forward bending knees to where shins are vertical which is the catch?
I think semantically you have it reversed.
Regarding the clock analogy, viewing you from your left side (as in the video) like a clock, if 12:00 is perfectly perpendicular to the floor:

11:00 should be the angle of the torso's forward position at the catch (the start position where your torso is leaning forward slightly and your knees are bent and arms are extended) and 1:00 should be the angle of the torso's finish position (where your legs are fully extended and the handle is drawn to your chest).

Also I'd like to dump this link here for a program to try https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/
M34|5'8"/173CM|150lb/68KG|LWT|MHR~192BPM|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat

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hjs
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by hjs » November 22nd, 2020, 10:59 am

lifebeginsafterdeath wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:18 am
from what i gather, my 11 movement was too far back? I don't feel that would be a problem if that is flexibility? Just i think my 11 was actually around 10? I guess in my mind, i have a hugh clock & felt my 11 position was further back. Once at 11, that would be the finish? Next is recovery? arms stretch out, wrists flat, start to lean forward to 1 o'clock, once wrists above knees, engage legs or go forward bending knees to where shins are vertical which is the catch?
Like Ampire says, the other way around.
Start the stroke leaning forward. Thats 11, and finish leaning back, that would be 1300 oclock.
And ofcourse its not exactly 11 to 13, but thats the tough idea.

You nmr 1 point should be, get your shoulders in front of your hips, with arms fully streched. There you start your stroke.

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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by lifebeginsafterdeath » November 22nd, 2020, 11:39 am

ahh, ok, i was guessing on what side of the person one is on looking at, pending if its 11 or 13? At least, i can now be more accurately in making a comment which position is called 11 & 13. I was always looking at if on left or right side it could be either way? Thanks again for the input so i can move forward.

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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by lifebeginsafterdeath » November 22nd, 2020, 11:42 am

ampire wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:48 am
lifebeginsafterdeath wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:18 am
from what i gather, my 11 movement was too far back? I don't feel that would be a problem if that is flexibility? Just i think my 11 was actually around 10? I guess in my mind, i have a hugh clock & felt my 11 position was further back. Once at 11, that would be the finish? Next is recovery? arms stretch out, wrists flat, start to lean forward to 1 o'clock, once wrists above knees, engage legs or go forward bending knees to where shins are vertical which is the catch?
I think semantically you have it reversed.
Regarding the clock analogy, viewing you from your left side (as in the video) like a clock, if 12:00 is perfectly perpendicular to the floor:

11:00 should be the angle of the torso's forward position at the catch (the start position where your torso is leaning forward slightly and your knees are bent and arms are extended) and 1:00 should be the angle of the torso's finish position (where your legs are fully extended and the handle is drawn to your chest).

Also I'd like to dump this link here for a program to try https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/
this looks challenging? I'll first have to get movement correct and then try this out? Also, what do you mean by "dump this link"? thank you

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ampire
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by ampire » November 22nd, 2020, 11:45 am

lifebeginsafterdeath wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 11:42 am
ampire wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:48 am
lifebeginsafterdeath wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 10:18 am
from what i gather, my 11 movement was too far back? I don't feel that would be a problem if that is flexibility? Just i think my 11 was actually around 10? I guess in my mind, i have a hugh clock & felt my 11 position was further back. Once at 11, that would be the finish? Next is recovery? arms stretch out, wrists flat, start to lean forward to 1 o'clock, once wrists above knees, engage legs or go forward bending knees to where shins are vertical which is the catch?
I think semantically you have it reversed.
Regarding the clock analogy, viewing you from your left side (as in the video) like a clock, if 12:00 is perfectly perpendicular to the floor:

11:00 should be the angle of the torso's forward position at the catch (the start position where your torso is leaning forward slightly and your knees are bent and arms are extended) and 1:00 should be the angle of the torso's finish position (where your legs are fully extended and the handle is drawn to your chest).

Also I'd like to dump this link here for a program to try https://thepeteplan.wordpress.com/beginner-training/
this looks challenging? I'll first have to get movement correct and then try this out? Also, what do you mean by "dump this link"? thank you
I mean I wanted to give you a program to try without interrupting HJS's valuable form advice.
M34|5'8"/173CM|150lb/68KG|LWT|MHR~192BPM|2020: 5K 18:52.9 (@1:53.2/500)|C2-D+Slides+EndureRow Seat

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jackarabit
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by jackarabit » November 22nd, 2020, 11:53 am

Good catch, ampire. I estimate that 8 of 10 aspiring indoor rowers making videos of their progress will place the camera at their left hand. With reference to this majority observation point, the superposed virtual clock puts 11 over the catch and 1 [or 1300 military] over the finish position. No dyslexia for cure found to date so we must all soldier on. Oddly, the video jock at DHR shoots all his instructives with cam located to his right and several points ahead of the beam. In his case, we are forced to apply Henry’s o’clocks. perhaps combined with the nautical right-of-way complications of Port Outbound, Starbd Home. Lucky ergs don’t move or we should have to factor in the nautical right-of-way complication of Port Outbound Star’d Home.🤪
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by hjs » November 22nd, 2020, 12:03 pm

jackarabit wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 11:53 am
Good catch, ampire. I estimate that 8 of 10 aspiring indoor rowers making videos of their progress will place the camera at their left hand. With reference to this majority observation point, the superposed virtual clock puts 11 over the catch and 1 [or 1300 military] over the finish position. No dyslexia for cure found to date so we must all soldier on. Oddly, the video jock at DHR shoots all his instructives with cam located to his right and several points ahead of the beam. In his case, we are forced to apply Henry’s o’clocks. perhaps combined with the nautical right-of-way complications of Port Outbound, Starbd Home. Lucky ergs don’t move or we should have to factor in the nautical right-of-way complication of Port Outbound Star’d Home.🤪
I use the idea of looking at a clock on the wall. Hence the 11 when starting and 1300 at the finish or the stroke. And the idea of from start to finish. Never thought this could give confusion :D

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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by ampire » November 22nd, 2020, 12:19 pm

Also for the distance workouts in the beginner plan row them at a pace of 2:15/500M at R20 (that is 20 strokes per minute SPM) just for starters and see if you can complete the distances at that pace.

For example, the first workout of 5000M, do that whole thing at 2:15/500 at 20 SPM and see if you can complete the distance at that pace. Rowing at 20 SPM will give you the opportunity to fine tune your form a bit. If 2:15 is too intense try 2:20, it doesn't really matter too much what your pace is at this point, you just need some seat time. The goal is to get your technique and form down on these workouts for now.

For the interval ones, like the second workout of 6 x 500m / 2min rest, you could try between 2:00 to 2:05 to start at R32 (aka 32 SPM).
That workout would look like 500M at 2:00 then take a 2 minute rest then 500M at 2:00 and then take a 2 minute rest and so forth.
During the rest time you can continue to sit on the machine, row slowly just to keep your muscles loose without generating additional fatigue.

To program that into the C2 you go to:
Select Workout
New Workout
Intervals
Intervals: Distance
then Input 500M into the Distance and 2:00 into the Rest Time.
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by jackarabit » November 22nd, 2020, 12:49 pm

hjs wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 12:03 pm
jackarabit wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 11:53 am
Good catch, ampire. I estimate that 8 of 10 aspiring indoor rowers making videos of their progress will place the camera at their left hand. With reference to this majority observation point, the superposed virtual clock puts 11 over the catch and 1 [or 1300 military] over the finish position. No dyslexia for cure found to date so we must all soldier on. Oddly, the video jock at DHR shoots all his instructives with cam located to his right and several points ahead of the beam. In his case, we are forced to apply Henry’s o’clocks. Lucky ergs don’t move or we should have to factor in the nautical right-of-way complication of Port Outbound Starb’d Home.🤪
I use the idea of looking at a clock on the wall. Hence the 11 when starting and 1300 at the finish or the stroke. And the idea of from start to finish. Never thought this could give confusion :D
I apologize Henry. I looked back and your application of 11 of the clock to the catch position is flawless. I have identified the primary source of confusion in this thread. I leave the advice giving to those with greater patience than I for shining light in a dark corner. :wink:
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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by hjs » November 22nd, 2020, 1:11 pm

jackarabit wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 12:49 pm
hjs wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 12:03 pm
jackarabit wrote:
November 22nd, 2020, 11:53 am
Good catch, ampire. I estimate that 8 of 10 aspiring indoor rowers making videos of their progress will place the camera at their left hand. With reference to this majority observation point, the superposed virtual clock puts 11 over the catch and 1 [or 1300 military] over the finish position. No dyslexia for cure found to date so we must all soldier on. Oddly, the video jock at DHR shoots all his instructives with cam located to his right and several points ahead of the beam. In his case, we are forced to apply Henry’s o’clocks. Lucky ergs don’t move or we should have to factor in the nautical right-of-way complication of Port Outbound Starb’d Home.🤪
I use the idea of looking at a clock on the wall. Hence the 11 when starting and 1300 at the finish or the stroke. And the idea of from start to finish. Never thought this could give confusion :D
I apologize Henry. I looked back and your application of 11 of the clock to the catch position is flawless. I have identified the primary source of confusion in this thread. I leave the advice giving to those with greater patience than I for shining light in a dark corner. :wink:
Absolutely Fine Jack. The fact the confusion popped up is plenty of reason to give it some attention.

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Re: 1ST TIME/IS MY FORM CORRECT?

Post by mict450 » November 22nd, 2020, 1:13 pm

Hopefully, OP is squared away on what it is he is supposed to be trying to accomplish. Henry's and others' well articulated responses should clear up any misunderstanding.
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