Plateaued - Work on Pace or Rate?

[slowpoke]

I started rowing about 8 months ago and one of the workouts I do 2-3 times a week is a 25 minute row. I've kept my stroke rate at 18 and over the past few weeks it seems like my pace has hit a wall at ~2:08.

Looking for some advice on what I should work on now to improve. Should I up my stroke rate to 19-20 or work on generating more force? Would one result in a "better" workout than the other?

My goal is just general fitness and weight loss/management. My stats in case it's helpful: early 30s, M, 182cm

[max_ratcliffe]

I started rowing about 8 months ago and one of the workouts I do 2-3 times a week is a 25 minute row. I've kept my stroke rate at 18 and over the past few weeks it seems like my pace has hit a wall at ~2:08.

Looking for some advice on what I should work on now to improve. Should I up my stroke rate to 19-20 or work on generating more force? Would one result in a "better" workout than the other?

My goal is just general fitness and weight loss/management. My stats in case it's helpful: early 30s, M, 182cm

Do you do any longer pieces, or is 25' as far as you go? I would take one of the 25' pieces and do a 10k or 45' instead.

Re your question about "better": the traditional route for improvement is to work on your stroke, and only then work on rate. This comes from actual OTW rowing where the whole crew need to be able to row at the same rate, but it is generally true for erging as well. That said, it's not like you're thrashing back and forth at 36spm, so I wouldn't worry over much.

I think your body had just become accustomed to the 25' pieces and so you need to mix things up a bit. Some longer, some faster and you'll see your plateau broken in a few weeks

[winniewinser]

I started rowing about 8 months ago and one of the workouts I do 2-3 times a week is a 25 minute row. I've kept my stroke rate at 18 and over the past few weeks it seems like my pace has hit a wall at ~2:08.

Looking for some advice on what I should work on now to improve. Should I up my stroke rate to 19-20 or work on generating more force? Would one result in a "better" workout than the other?

My goal is just general fitness and weight loss/management. My stats in case it's helpful: early 30s, M, 182cm

Long slow rows tend to be best for burning the weight off so nothing wrong with R18. Personally I tend to row all my 'base' metres at R22 but that is at the coaches orders.

If you want to lose weight as the priority I would say row longer sessions if possible.
If you want to drop your average pace it's time to try may R20-R24.

Good luck

[jamesg]

rate 18 and pace ~2:08.

Pace 2:08 is about 170W, which at rate 18 (17.5 average if PM value) says ratio (=stroke work) almost 10 watt-minutes.
Height 182 says ideal BMI weight around 75 kg, and 170/75 = 2.3 W/kg.

Both good already. But if you want improvement, the first step is always style, since style is how we use our muscle. You could check yours, to make sure you take a quick catch with the legs from a strong posture. This engages the chain asap and keeps the stroke long and effective by ensuring we use the muscle groups in sequence: legs, trunk, shoulders.

https://www.concept2.com/indoor-rowers/ ... que-videos

A typical test is 30 minutes rate 20. 7500m should be within your capabilites.

[Dangerscouse]

It's very likely that if you increase your stroke rate, you'll get faster, and I agree with Max about mixing things up for your regular sessions.

[Tsnor]

I started rowing about 8 months ago and one of the workouts I do 2-3 times a week is a 25 minute row. I've kept my stroke rate at 18 and over the past few weeks it seems like my pace has hit a wall at ~2:08.

What other workouts are you doing ? Assume none, but if you are doing other workout (or have a very physical job, or..) please post -- it changes the answers. Assume you are doing the 25 mins at 2:08 hard -- that if you started at 2:00 your legs/heart/lungs would all stop you in 5 to 10 mins, and that 2:08 is your best pace for 25 mins.

If your current training plan is (25 minute rows 2-3 times/week) then make two changes while staying at 2-3 sessions/week.

1) Change one 25 minute row to an interval session. It will be shorter than 25 mins. Do a 10 minute warmup at your same 2:08-2:10 pace then do something like 30 seconds very hard, 30 seconds off for 8 reps. Then cool off with a few more minutes at a slower 2:30 pace. There are many many good interval sessions, pick and do one a week, or if you find you like intervals do two. Don't do more than 2/week and puts a few days in between hard sessions. Hit intensity workouts signal your body to use rest days to make a lot of positive changes.

2) Change one (or two) of your 25 minute steady state sessions to be longer. Target 45 minutes or longer eventually, but work up at a rate you can manage (or your butt will hurt). Drop the effort level so you can speak conversationally during this session, harder is not better for this work. You pace should be slower than your 25 minute 2:08 pace... maybe 2:45, maybe 2:30. This long slow rowing drives a different set of adaptations than the high effort rows, and if you go too hard you won't get them. If you want to do more then go longer. Music, podcasts, audiobooks, TV, movies, etc. helps during these rows.

The combo of (1) "hard interval" session and (1) "long slow conversational pace" row and (1) "you choose it" session will lead to lower resting heart rate, stronger lungs, stronger heart, etc. In 4 to 6 weeks you should see improvement past the plateau you are hitting (2:08 for 25 mins).

If you make zero changes and continue the current 2:08 for 25 mins 2-3 times a week you will eventually get below 2:00 for 25 mins. Changing to one interval and one longer piece will get you there faster and healthier. Some reading if you want to follow up https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... e_Training

[slowpoke]

Wow appreciate all the responses. I'll add a bit more info about my current rowing workouts:

Generally I try to row 5-6 times a week. The other main workout I do is an interval, 6x 500m, 2min rest. Averaging around a 1:55 at 23-24 spm on those. And once every week or 2 I'll do a 10k row at a slower pace, anywhere from 2:14-2:18 overall.

Improving my form/style is definitely something that's been on my mind. I've only rowed at home so I've never had an in-person instructor critiquing my form. I feel like I'm not generating as much force from my legs as I could.

Inexplicably, it's never occurred to me to keep my current pace/rate and just add time to the workout. That might be the way to go since I've got a decent breathing technique worked out for 18spm. Also have read that, like winniewinser mentioned, slower rows are better for weight loss. I'll try out a 30 minute row next time and see how that works out.

[Tsnor]

.. Generally I try to row 5-6 times a week. The other main workout I do is an interval, 6x 500m, 2min rest. Averaging around a 1:55 at 23-24 spm on those. And once every week or 2 I'll do a 10k row at a slower pace, anywhere from 2:14-2:18 overall.

Possible problem coming.

* row 5-6 times a week.
* 2-3 times 2:08 for 25 mins.
* intervals with 6 x 500m 1:55
* 10K at 2:14-2:18

Following assumes you are up in the 80-90% of max heart rate, and that you are breathing hard for each of those workouts. If you are only doing 2-3 workouts a week ignore the following. If you are loafing during the 25min rows you can also ignore the following, but I am guessing from the time consistency that all of your workouts leave you sweating and feeling that you worked hard, and that you would be breathing too heavily to talk normally on the phone while you were rowing.

You are doing 5 hard workouts a week. After a few months of 5 days/week athletes hit a plateau in rowing, biking, running, etc. Your workouts signal the body to adapt. That type of workout plan is not giving your body a chance to adapt. Research says 2-3 hard workouts a week is optimal, that's what Olympians typically do. 5 hard workouts a week is likely to drive you into overreach/overtraining. First symptoms of overreach -- plateauing, rising resting heart rate, loss of motivation. (You still seem to have good motivation.) Second wave of symptoms include reduced performance, lower max heart rate, continued rising resting heart rate, lowering heart rate variability, feeling tired/fatigued, low energy, chronic colds, infections and other illnesses, insomnia, weight gain, stamina decline. Ugly stuff. https://journals.lww.com/acsm-healthfit ... ays.4.aspx

Suggest you pick and choose among your workout days and get down to 2 hard days. At most 3. Then add the long slow stuff at a SLOW pace - slow enough you could be on the phone talking conversationally.

If you don't have a heart rate monitor consider getting a belt, and then use it to help you walk the edge between optimal and too much. Once you find your max HR, target 70% your max HR for all but 2-3 days a week. Those long slow rows can be fun. 80-90% of the time elite endurance athletes spend working out is typically in this long/slow range.

Everyone is different. It's possible you'll thrive on 5 hard workouts a week. But elite athletes typically don't try. And if you are seeing a performance plateau already then adding more time at the hard workout level is likely not to make things better.

Here is a TED TALK that outlines what might be going on: https://www.ted.com/talks/stephen_seile ... e_athletes

[Carl Watts]

Describe the "Wall"

18spm at 2:08 pace is not great for someone age 30 at 182cm. That should be a "Training" pace row for you.

Is the wall that you cannot pull harder to improve the pace at 18spm or your HR is maxed out or both ?

I presume your quite light weight.

[slowpoke]

Tsnor - very interesting reading. I may throw in a few easy-med workouts throughout the week.

Describe the "Wall"

18spm at 2:08 pace is not great for someone age 30 at 182cm. That should be a "Training" pace row for you.

Is the wall that you cannot pull harder to improve the pace at 18spm or your HR is maxed out or both ?

I presume your quite light weight.

I'm actually not lightweight, I don't own a scale but if I have to guess I could probably stand to lose 5-8 lbs/2-3kg to be at a more ideal bmi.

The wall tends to be: I can't consistently pull below 2:07 while maintaining 18spm. I can do 2-4 strokes of ~2:05 periodically but the vast majority of the time it's between 2:07-2:09. Can't speak to HR as I don't have a HR monitor.

[Carl Watts]

Basically you lack power then.

I would check the actual "Drag factor" on the monitor to make sure its not really low. If its to low you will simply not get the pace at 18spm.

You need some scales to start tracking your weight and a heart rate monitor.

BMI is rubbish it doesn't take into account your body composition. Works great if you never do any exercise at all but as soon as you get serious in a sport its a joke.