Ways to stop foot from rotating?

[HuskiesandBuckeyes]

I had a total right knee replacement 9 years ago, so my exercise now is low-impact – biking, swimming, walking, the erg. I row 1-3 times per week, 10-15 km per session, generally SLOOOW and steady (~2:30/500 m). Probably due to reduced flexion in my right knee, I find that my right foot pivots clockwise on the footplate, which is awkward and reduces the power I can generate (I think). As a result, I’m trying to figure out a way to keep my foot aligned properly on the footplate.

I recently learned about BAT’s ErgAdaptor for Concept2, which seems like the rowing equivalent of clip-in bike pedals. However, those are out-of-stock, and BAT says they don’t know when stock will be available again. Are there any other systems that are similar to BAT’s for the Concept2?

The other way I’ve thought about trying to deal with this would be to place some type of block against the rail, so that my heel can’t pivot inward. I have some ideas about how to do this with a properly-cut wood block, but on the off-chance that someone else has solved this problem – does anyone know of any system available to control lateral motion of the heel on the footplate?
Thanks

[JaapvanE]

My feet rotate outwards, and I learned to row strapless as it improves technique but also removes strain on my knees during the session. Never been an issue since for me.

[drluvguru]

You might want to try rowing strapless, like JaapvanE suggested. It can help with foot rotation and might reduce strain on your knee, too. If you don’t want to go strapless, maybe adjusting your footplate angle or adding some sort of lateral support could work.

[Tsnor]

Not sure you want to stop your foot from rotating, especially with homemade devices that might overly restrict float. Float reduces strain on your knee, lack of float is bad. The food pad on the c2 rower has some side to side motion, pretty sure that's on purpose to allow heel to move during the stroke. The excellent advice to try strapless above is another way to ensure you have all the float you need.

Before doing anything that restricts your foot's ability to rotate I'd book time with a physical therapist and make sure your knee alignment is good while rowing, then see if they can tell why the foot is rotating, and if they want to change that rotation. Shoe inserts will change rotation, see cycling bike fit videos on shoe inserts.

Do verify your knees placement rowing. You want your knees going straight up and down, not out to the side. Some rowers, especially heavier rowers, use outward knee bend to create room for more body over and get a longer stroke, but they shouldn't. Instead they should keep knees straight and shorten up on the stroke. Pushing your right knee out would tend to rotate your foot clockwise at your heel. Stop that at the knee, not the heel.

Not sure there is power to be gained by stopping the rotation. For example, clipless bike pedals have benefits vs flats, but it's not clear they deliver extra power vs. clips as shown by this set of medical studies. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUEaN9FKGLE

Outstanding you are active. 9 years of TKR use makes you the expert, not me. Also, <not a doctor disclaimer>.

[iain]

My feet rotate outwards, and I learned to row strapless as it improves technique but also removes strain on my knees during the session. Never been an issue since for me.

I'm not saying it applies to you, but I found when I tried to row strapless that as I "relaxed" I was actually inadvertently gripping the rail with the rear sides of my shoes and so I was rotating my feet outwards while counteracting the benefits of strapless rowing (as well as chewing up my trainers!)

[JaapvanE]

I'm not saying it applies to you, but I found when I tried to row strapless that as I "relaxed" I was actually inadvertently gripping the rail with the rear sides of my shoes and so I was rotating my feet outwards while counteracting the benefits of strapless rowing (as well as chewing up my trainers!)

I can relax until the end, as I practiced enough. Over time, balance improves and you don't need the rail to keep you from (feeling you are) tipping off at the back. But due to my natural rotation I indeed have issues with the rail chewing up my trainers when compressing, especially on the left side. I have a small piece of HDPU teflon tape on the inside heel of my trainers ro prevent that from happening.

[Joebasscat]

I used to notice it on my right foot and I had a bout with my SI joint on the right side. Thought maybe they were related. Strapless primarily. I stopped it just by becoming aware of it and making a mental note not to. Fast forward a year or so and now I notice it some on my left foot. I just adjust when I notice it and carry on.

Was interesting to read about others in this thread talking about rail contact with their heel to the point of damaging their shoes over time. I guess mine has never been that pronounced. Looking at the foot plate, as Tsnor pointed out, they are definitely made to accommodate that movement so likely there for that reason.

[HuskiesandBuckeyes]

Thanks to all for your advice on this. I'll try not using the straps. Also will take to heart Tsnor's advice about shortening my stroke. I have 20+ years of muscle memory on the Concept2 but definitely have gotten heavier, so my knee may be rotating out to make room for my middle. Thanks again, and happy erging!

[PleaseLockIn]

Thanks to all for your advice on this. I'll try not using the straps. Also will take to heart Tsnor's advice about shortening my stroke. I have 20+ years of muscle memory on the Concept2 but definitely have gotten heavier, so my knee may be rotating out to make room for my middle. Thanks again, and happy erging!

Late but in my experience what fixed this was stupidly easy rowing with the same technique, just with the knees not rotating. If you are worried about shortening the stroke, protract the scapula outwards around an inch to make up for some of the length.

Eventually you can press harder without any rotation. Strapless rowing works - just make sure not to use the rail. It’s tough - start with steady state.

PS, 2:30/500m steady state isn’t bad. I can do 1:59 r20 8*500m intervals (last 1:57.7) and yet my steady state is close to 2:28/500m to keep my HR below 70% HRR.

UT2 is at most, up to 70% of HRR. If you can keep your HR below that, or even below 70% of your max HR, your aerobic capacity isn’t bad for a beginner. Fix the issues, gain power, and you’d be able to row much faster in a competition!

[p_b82]

If you are worried about shortening the stroke, protract the scapula outwards around an inch to make up for some of the length.

I've seen you write this a few times now, but what do you actually mean by this - and what has it got to do with changing ones drive length?

[Tsnor]

I asked chatGPT what does " protract the scapula " mean. It said

"Protracting the scapula means moving your shoulder blades forward and away from the spine. This motion is also called scapular abduction. A common example of scapular protraction is when you push your arms forward, like when throwing a punch or reaching for something in front of you. The primary muscle responsible for this movement is the serratus anterior, sometimes called the "boxer's muscle" because of its role in punching motions."

So I asked chatGPT what it thought about "in rowing what should your shoulder look like at the start of the drive?" and got one of chatGPT's better answers...but with no references I could cross check. Some of ChatGPT's answers are hilariously bad, but it usually gives you references you can cross check. It's easy to bias ChatGPT's answer by feeding it prior questions, so not sure if it would have made the point about "scapulae should be slightly protracted" without my prior question.

"At the start of the drive in rowing, your shoulders should be in a strong, engaged position. Specifically:
- Shoulders should be relaxed but engaged, not shrugged up toward your ears.
- Maintain a forward tilt over your hips, keeping your shoulders slightly ahead of your hips.
- Arms should be straight, allowing the power to transfer efficiently from your legs through your core.
- Your back should be braced, avoiding excessive rounding or collapsing.
- Your scapulae should be slightly protracted, meaning your shoulder blades are not squeezed together but positioned to allow a strong leg drive.
This setup ensures that the power from your legs transfers efficiently through your body without losing energy through poor posture. If your shoulders are too tight or hunched, it can disrupt the stroke and reduce efficiency."

Our coaches focus on "strong back position" so that during the drive your shoulders are in position to deliver leg force to the handle. My coaches would yell (have yelled) at me if my arms looked like I just threw a punch or if my shoulders were hunched up. They want shoulders back at the cost of reach at the catch.

So I asked ChatGPT "in weight lifting what should your shoulder look like at the start of a squat?"

"At the start of a squat in weightlifting, your shoulders should be in a stable and engaged position to support the barbell and maintain proper posture. Here’s what to focus on:
- Shoulders should be packed and engaged, meaning they are pulled slightly down and back to create stability.
- Elbows should be positioned under or slightly behind the bar, depending on whether you're doing a high-bar or low-bar squat.
- Your upper back should be tight, with the scapulae slightly retracted to create a strong shelf for the bar.
- Your chest should be up, avoiding excessive rounding or collapsing forward."

That description is closer to our coaches take on what your shoulders should look like at the start of the drive.

[Sakly]

As the AI gave some reasonable answers, I think the start position in a squat and at the catch have not much in common to be compared.
At the squat, shoulders and arms need to stabilize and don't move, at the catch they need to transfer power and move through the drive.
When I want to make advantage of more length, I use a higher rate of protraction in my stroke, as I am used to this movement from my strength training. So I am able to transfer the same amount of power through this position, despite it does not seem to be as stable as 'locked' shoulders.

[p_b82]

I asked chatGPT what does " protract the scapula " mean. It said
<snip>

As the AI gave some reasonable answers, I think the start position in a squat and at the catch have not much in common to be compared.
At the squat, shoulders and arms need to stabilize and don't move, at the catch they need to transfer power and move through the drive.
When I want to make advantage of more length, I use a higher rate of protraction in my stroke, as I am used to this movement from my strength training. So I am able to transfer the same amount of power through this position, despite it does not seem to be as stable as 'locked' shoulders.

thanks for both your answers - It sounds to me like the advice given needs to be taken with a huge caveat, as done badly, I'm fairly certain it could result in a shoulder related injury developing.

I'll just continue to row with my shoulders "back and down" in a relaxed/neutral position - one that so far has not caused me any problems - and any length I'm losing out on, sod it.
I'm already losing a lot on amount of compression at the catch and amount of hip hinge so a cm or so from shoulder position is not going to make any difference for me in the grand scheme of things!