What Training Have You Done Today?

[alex9026]

I find 5k more frightening than 2k. It requires you to live in the wierd unsustainable space between anaerobic threshold and VO2max, deeper for you than me (as I need to row a few min longer). As such it requires you to hold a pace with significant oxygen debt slowly increasing for a very long time.

Tony Larkman did an interview recently (little plug for his podcast here) with last year's winner of the Indoors, Josh Knight. He states he "prefers" (I use that term loosely) a 2k test over 5k, simply because it's over sooner. So if that's enough of a reason for him, it's good enough for me

I find the 2k worse, despite your compelling reasons as to why I shouldn't. I think 5k and below is a tipping point for me, where I increasingly struggle to endure and accept.

I suspect, and this is only a suspicion, that it's because my limiter is oxygen utilisation, so this is more pronounced over a harder, faster session. I don't get that feeling of slightly suffocating in a 5k, like I do in a 2k and below.

As for the collapse, it probably is that, but there's also a pertinent phrase 'biology follows belief'. When you feel like it's a challenge, your neurotransmitters will work with you, but when it feels like a threat, the opposite will happen, and then it's almost an inevitable decline. Imo, it's an unknown blend of mental and physical aspects that will combine to be far bigger than the sum of their individual parts.

I think there is definitely a genetic/physiological trait. Look at your long distance times, they'd suggest you're naturally stronger over endurance pieces. Struggling to endure and accept of long pieces is a different suffering to the short stuff. Take the 800m in athletics for instance, a quite hideous distance to run when on the limit, but over in moments.

[alex9026]

29:56.5 8,000 1:52.2 247 1150 17
7:31.2 2,000 1:52.8 244 1139 18
7:31.5 4,000 1:52.8 243 1137 18
7:27.6 6,000 1:51.9 250 1159 18
7:26.2 8,000 1:51.5 252 1167 18

A towel down and fluids, in to:

47:31.6 12,000 1:58.8 209 1018 19
11:59.6 3,000 1:59.9 203 998 20
11:58.7 6,000 1:59.7 204 1000 20
11:54.8 9,000 1:59.1 207 1012 20
11:38.5 12,000 1:56.4 222 1063 20

8k + 12k totalling a broken 20k. Really didn't feel like the second piece, so all the more reason to have got it done.

[alex9026]

Sub7's June ITC is 4x2k/4:00r, with only the slowest rep counting towards the ranking. Having gone 1:38.8 for 4x2k/5:00r a couple weeks ago, I felt decently confident going into this attempt, although the slightly shorter rest breaks made a noticeable difference!

Code: Select all

Time	Meters	Pace	Watts	Cal/Hr	S/M
26:30.8	8,000	1:39.4	356	1525	31
6:38.1	2,000	1:39.5	355	1521	31
6:38.0	2,000	1:39.5	355	1522	31
6:37.6	2,000	1:39.4	356	1526	32
6:37.0	2,000	1:39.2	358	1532	32
r2,262

Well this looks like a sadistic way to score a piece. Well paced. A session I ought to revisit.

[Jbrown1215]

I find 5k more frightening than 2k. It requires you to live in the wierd unsustainable space between anaerobic threshold and VO2max, deeper for you than me (as I need to row a few min longer). As such it requires you to hold a pace with significant oxygen debt slowly increasing for a very long time. We all complain about the 2k, but the time between it really getting tough and being close enough to the end to push on anaerobically is actually quite short (even if time seems to slow down) On a 5k you need to think in minutes as there are just too many 100s left to take each individually! Not at all sure what finally forces the physiological collapse (is this running out of muscle glycogen so needing to work liver as well as muscles and skin for cooling?) interested in what others think and good luck on your next attempt. Based on your 6k PB, you can definitely go faster over 5!

I find the 2k worse, despite your compelling reasons as to why I shouldn't. I think 5k and below is a tipping point for me, where I increasingly struggle to endure and accept.

I suspect, and this is only a suspicion, that it's because my limiter is oxygen utilisation, so this is more pronounced over a harder, faster session. I don't get that feeling of slightly suffocating in a 5k, like I do in a 2k and below.

As for the collapse, it probably is that, but there's also a pertinent phrase 'biology follows belief'. When you feel like it's a challenge, your neurotransmitters will work with you, but when it feels like a threat, the opposite will happen, and then it's almost an inevitable decline. Imo, it's an unknown blend of mental and physical aspects that will combine to be far bigger than the sum of their individual parts.

I find a 5k "easier" than 2k, but I suspect that's because I've yet to go as deep into the well on a 5k as I did on a couple of my 2ks last winter. Plenty of suffering to be had in either case, but slightly different flavors. 5ks and longer certainly don't create the same wicked acid-infused leg pump that a 1k/2k do.

[jcross485]

I personally find the shorter / sharper stuff to be more intimidating and painful than the longer stuff. I agree that it's highly individual and probably based on how your training is biased, your physiology, and even age to an extent - I have found that as I've gotten older, I've tended to gravitate to the longer stuff as opposed to the shorter / sharper stuff.

[jcross485]

3 x 5k (1:00 rest).

More of an aerobic / upper aerobic session but very pleased overall. I mentioned it somewhere else but I went back and looked at my logbook from about a month or two into the erg; I was very fit aerobically from all of the running I was doing but I was not necessarily in tune with the erg. Back then, I was pulling 6k "steady" but power was around 165w and HR was getting into the 160's - this was all in the early spring months where temps were in the 50's and 60's as well.

Today I did 2.5x the volume, 15% more power, HR 15 BPM lower on average, and with temps in the 80's. I'm willing to bet with consistent work on the erg through these hot summer months, steady state work come fall and winter when its cool might be pushing 200w.

Sometimes, I get caught up in hoping I was at a certain point with respect to health, fitness, performance, etc., and don't necessarily appreciate the progress from all the work. It was good to reflect this morning, and while I am not necessarily content with where I am, I am pleased with the progress made over the last few years and am eager to continue the journey.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
1:01:26.2 15,000 2:02.8 189 949 18 145

4:06.1 1,000 2:03.0 188 946 18 127
4:06.0 1,000 2:03.0 188 947 18 139
4:06.0 1,000 2:03.0 188 947 18 141
4:05.8 1,000 2:02.9 189 948 18 143
4:05.8 1,000 2:02.9 189 948 18 144
r: 1:00 44
4:05.8 1,000 2:02.9 189 948 18 144
4:05.7 1,000 2:02.8 189 949 18 146
4:05.6 1,000 2:02.8 189 950 18 147
4:05.6 1,000 2:02.8 189 950 18 149
4:05.6 1,000 2:02.8 189 950 18 150
r: 1:00 39
4:05.8 1,000 2:02.9 189 948 18 147
4:05.7 1,000 2:02.8 189 949 18 148
4:05.6 1,000 2:02.8 189 950 18 150
4:05.6 1,000 2:02.8 189 950 18 151
4:05.5 1,000 2:02.7 189 951 18 151
r83

[nick rockliff]

Just a 60r20 this evening

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
1:00:00.0 14,292 2:05.9 175 902 20 127
5:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 114
10:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 119
15:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 122
20:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 122
25:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 124
30:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 129
35:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 130
40:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 129
45:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 135
50:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 136
55:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 137
1:00:00.0 1,191 2:05.9 175 902 20 134

1200 strokes and a sweat fest.

[reuben]

Where are you from? I hope not Arkansas, they are way too proud about being 49th in everything.

I was born in Washington DC at a hospital that no longer exists - it's, uh, been a while. I've lived in MD all of my life. I like having four seasons, although winter hasn't been much in recent years. I also like water and woods, which, admittedly, MD isn't alone in offering.

I'm not a real fan of desert environments, although I've been to the Atacama desert (the driest place on earth), and the neighboring Salar de Uyuni.

I travel some, to CA, OR, LA, MS, Patagonia, Belize, and other places. It's a big world, at least from our meager human perspective. Seeing more of it, and talking with the people that live there, provides a lot of good perspective.

My Scotland trip was scuttled due to covid. I need to get back on the stick regarding that one. The plan is to hike up the JoGT (Inverness to John O'Groats) and then up into the Orkney Islands.

https://www.jogt.org.uk/

Mongolia, Land of the Eternal Blue Sky, still pulls on me.

The Salar. If you think this is wild, search for other images. When it rains (VERY seldom, VERY little), it's so flat that if the wind is calm it turns into a mirror. When it's dry, as in this image, the white salt surface reflecting an unrelenting sun in a cloudless sky can give you a sunburn in 5 or 10 minutes.

[Ruin Christmas]

I travel some,

Wow, you are impressively well-traveled. You've probably been more places in Mississippi than me, and I've lived here 11 years. I have only been to Canada and Iraq. (not counting stops at airports/bases if I didn't leave). The only time I've been west of the Mississippi is to the NTC which is a desert (though not as extreme as that Mongolian one). Also was stationed in Alaska for a few years. Since college, I have not enjoyed traveling at all, though I will do it to visit family. I did go to Arkansas to see the eclipse, lol.

yesterday training:
squat
4k UT2
work interruption
45' UT2
had to drive kid to sport
yard/chicken work 90 minutes
3k UT2
7k UT1
1800 m TR
4' TR

[Dangerscouse]

29:56.5 8,000 1:52.2 247 1150 17
7:31.2 2,000 1:52.8 244 1139 18
7:31.5 4,000 1:52.8 243 1137 18
7:27.6 6,000 1:51.9 250 1159 18
7:26.2 8,000 1:51.5 252 1167 18

A towel down and fluids, in to:

47:31.6 12,000 1:58.8 209 1018 19
11:59.6 3,000 1:59.9 203 998 20
11:58.7 6,000 1:59.7 204 1000 20
11:54.8 9,000 1:59.1 207 1012 20
11:38.5 12,000 1:56.4 222 1063 20

8k + 12k totalling a broken 20k. Really didn't feel like the second piece, so all the more reason to have got it done.

As much as the that 8k made me smile, ie it was a really solid result at r17/18, you then doing a good 12k straight after when you didn't want to is almost as impressive.

When you can dominate sessions that are a chore, you've really tuned into something special.

I remember when I did a HM in lockdown, and on a whim I decided to do another one almost straight afterwards. I was knee deep in a purple patch then, and I felt able to rip up trees, so this is a great indication of something similar

[Ruin Christmas]

lift
4k UT2
6k UT1
4k AT
1500m TR
5k UT2

Killed most of the wasps, and bought one of those fly bags which has decimated that unsavory population. This seemingly caused an ecological vacuum - now there are horseflies and I was bitten several times after foolishly opening the garage door to get some fresh air.

[alex9026]

As much as the that 8k made me smile, ie it was a really solid result at r17/18, you then doing a good 12k straight after when you didn't want to is almost as impressive.

When you can dominate sessions that are a chore, you've really tuned into something special.

I remember when I did a HM in lockdown, and on a whim I decided to do another one almost straight afterwards. I was knee deep in a purple patch then, and I felt able to rip up trees, so this is a great indication of something similar

Thanks Stu, the 8kr18 (or 17, thanks to the Erg maths) felt like a good substitution for the strength work I'm avoiding. Being off work this week helps too, recovering much better, no 03:45 alarms or night shifts... I should box off a couple of TT's to really see where I'm at, but they'll be ad hoc because if I try commit to a date, they won't happen.

That turnaround of half marathons is bonkers, but you have to ride those rare waves when they're in your favour.

[alex9026]

lift
4k UT2
6k UT1
4k AT
1500m TR
5k UT2

Killed most of the wasps, and bought one of those fly bags which has decimated that unsavory population. This seemingly caused an ecological vacuum - now there are horseflies and I was bitten several times after foolishly opening the garage door to get some fresh air.

This looks like a good chunk of work. I don't envy the wasps and then horseflies situation!

[nick rockliff]

Thought I'd have a go at the TOC this evening.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
21:00.0 5,660 1:51.3 254 1173 28 148
1:00.0 281 1:46.7 288 1289 31 136
r: 1:30 17
9:00.0 2,424 1:51.3 253 1171 28 149
r: 2:00 12
7:00.0 1,868 1:52.4 246 1147 26 153
r: 2:00 14
4:00.0 1,086 1:50.4 259 1192 28 157
r43

Evil session.

[Ruin Christmas]

This looks like a good chunk of work.

thanks man, that's a nice compliment from a work chunker such as yourself!

I don't envy the wasps and then horseflies situation!

The other day I caught one of the horseflies in a Tupperware container i use for gym chalk, and it literally died in 10 seconds. This was very pleasing, however i will leave the garage door shut today. It is 90F, but I bought an industrial style fan which really helps.