Pondering the Beginner Pete Plan

[iain]

Well done DJ on a Plan competed and excellent 2k PB. I agree with the above re pacing. My only thoughts when next you are scheduling a 2k is that you could probably gain a bit from a higher rating. To do this you need to focus on the shorter intervals at higher ratings first, especially the 500s where increasing the rest on the Lunchtime Plan will help. Pete described lying on the floor next to the erg between intervals when at his peak!

Hope te surgery goes well and look forward to following your continued improvement.

[DJ1972]

heck yeah, nice job! time to update your signature!

This looks like a very well executed 2k to me, strong effort. To have no energy at the end and half a second drop off in pace means you aren't walking away thinking "what if".

And congrats on seeing the program through and progress made.

congrats on the plan completion and that 2K - doesn't look that it was too badly paced, just maybe a little over-eager in that first 250m - but a huge improvement all the same!

Well done DJ on a Plan competed and excellent 2k PB. I agree with the above re pacing. My only thoughts when next you are scheduling a 2k is that you could probably gain a bit from a higher rating. To do this you need to focus on the shorter intervals at higher ratings first, especially the 500s where increasing the rest on the Lunchtime Plan will help. Pete described lying on the floor next to the erg between intervals when at his peak!

Hope te surgery goes well and look forward to following your continued improvement.

Congratulations on completing the plan and on your impressive 2k score!
And as mentionned, better a little drop in the end than to finish with strong legs I suppose.

I'm planning a light steady state session today and my 2k test tomorrow.
Your performance gives me hope that it should be possible to match the last 4 x 1k session, especially since you didn't have a recovery day.

Until the end, life gets under way to finish the BPP. I had some rather urgent laser eye treatment scheduled for tomorrow and I had to squeeze W24.5 and the 2k time before, with no rest day in between. After treatment no major physical effort is advised.

Good luck with the eye treatment.
When do you hope to start back up again?

Thank you!
Eye laser went well, and I can do a very slow session from tomorrow.

I should start again next Monday or Tuesday. Anyone starting first the Lunch Hour plan can create the new thread. I will take easy as a first cycle to maintain gains before I have my summer break.

Thank you, Iain, for the advice on higher ratings. This is an area I am aware that I need to work on. My base fitness, though a lot better than in the past, is not yet there to sustain >30 SR and ideally 32SR. Something to work for the next 6 months (and further)...that's the objective.

Joris, my 4x1000m, 3min Rest was 'spot on' for the 2k pace, so I believe that you can match the same pace even with the last excrutiatingly painful 500m.

[Joris]

Yesterday I decided to do a light steady state session leading up to my 2k trial.
Seemed like a good opportunity to see how, based on heart rate, my cardio has evolved since starting the plan.
Just before I started the BPP plan I did a 6k at 2:25 and my average heart rate ended up to be 147.
It wasn't a full out test, but it wasn't an easy session either and afterwards I realised I didn't have a clue how to organise a training plan. That's when I found the BPP plan.

So yesterday I did another 6k distance at 2:25 to see how my fitness evolved and my average heart rate ended up being 136. In other words 11 beats per minute less than about 8 months ago. Not surprisingly, compared to then, the effort also felt much lighter. Had I had a benchmark for a longer distance the difference would probably have been even greater between now and then, so all the exercising of the last months definitely paid off.

After the 6k session I also did a quick 100m test.
Probably not very meaningful since I had never trained this and had no idea what rate to aim for. But since this was one of the few benchmarks I put down for the BPP plan I thought it would be interesting to see the difference anyway.
I finished with 00:19.52 and a rate of 34.8, while my previous PB from befor the plan was 00:23.36 with a rate of 31.7.
So also here a significant improvement.

Then today the big test with my first ever 2k time trial.
My target was sub 8 minutes and my plan was to start sufficiently fast at the beginning, then consolidate, and finally speed up if I had any energy left.
So it happened, with splits of 1:59, 2:01, 2:01 and 1:57 and an average rate of 27.4 I clocked in at 07:57.99. Mission accomplished!!

In retrospect, perhaps I could have gone just a bit faster with a more even pace of my race. But on the other hand, I reached a new maximum heart rate of 177 (previously 176), so I definitely had to go deep to achieve this performance. Judging from the above posts, boosting my rate is definitely a work point as well to further improve my pace.

On to the Pete plan now, where at the beginning I will also try to do some time trials for the other distances (500m, 1k, 5k, 6k and 10k) to see where I'm at at the end of the Beginner Pete Plan and the start of the regular Pete plan.

[PleaseLockIn]

Yesterday I decided to do a light steady state session leading up to my 2k trial.
Seemed like a good opportunity to see how, based on heart rate, my cardio has evolved since starting the plan.
Just before I started the BPP plan I did a 6k at 2:25 and my average heart rate ended up to be 147.
It wasn't a full out test, but it wasn't an easy session either and afterwards I realised I didn't have a clue how to organise a training plan. That's when I found the BPP plan.

So yesterday I did another 6k distance at 2:25 to see how my fitness evolved and my average heart rate ended up being 136. In other words 11 beats per minute less than about 8 months ago. Not surprisingly, compared to then, the effort also felt much lighter. Had I had a benchmark for a longer distance the difference would probably have been even greater between now and then, so all the exercising of the last months definitely paid off.

After the 6k session I also did a quick 100m test.
Probably not very meaningful since I had never trained this and had no idea what rate to aim for. But since this was one of the few benchmarks I put down for the BPP plan I thought it would be interesting to see the difference anyway.
I finished with 00:19.52 and a rate of 34.8, while my previous PB from befor the plan was 00:23.36 with a rate of 31.7.
So also here a significant improvement.

Then today the big test with my first ever 2k time trial.
My target was sub 8 minutes and my plan was to start sufficiently fast at the beginning, then consolidate, and finally speed up if I had any energy left.
So it happened, with splits of 1:59, 2:01, 2:01 and 1:57 and an average rate of 27.4 I clocked in at 07:57.99. Mission accomplished!!

In retrospect, perhaps I could have gone just a bit faster with a more even pace of my race. But on the other hand, I reached a new maximum heart rate of 177 (previously 176), so I definitely had to go deep to achieve this performance. Judging from the above posts, boosting my rate is definitely a work point as well to further improve my pace.

On to the Pete plan now, where at the beginning I will also try to do some time trials for the other distances (500m, 1k, 5k, 6k and 10k) to see where I'm at at the end of the Beginner Pete Plan and the start of the regular Pete plan.

Congrats! I knew you could get sub 8 2k!

Good luck with your other time trials!

Finally getting back into erging after a little surgery to remove some skin growth.

25 min x 2 3’, slightly over 10000m UT2. Footplates set to 3 significantly improved UT2 - 2nd interval 2:27-ish r18 pace and the HR below 157. Thx to rowalong for pointing this out!
AC not turned on, bad ventilation - raised the HR significantly. Perhaps it was a form issue to an extent!

Tomorrow - don’t think I can do intervals, this surgery ought to heal first. Life happens. But we got to make the most of it!

[reuben]

Well, after completing the BPP a couple of weeks ago, today was the day for my 2k attempt.

Around Week 16-18 I suddenly and unexpectedly became interested in attempting this, but by Week 24 that urge had dissipated. And yet, if I'm ever going to attempt a 2k, now would be a good time, and possibly the only time I ever do so.

With that in mind, I've been playing with 1k intervals lately, and tossed out my 2:06 dream as unrealistic, which others thought was too ambitious as well. 2:08 seemed like it would be pretty easy. 2:07.5 has been suggested a few times, so I decided to shoot for that. Over 2k there's only 2s difference between 2:07.5 and 2:08.0, but it's a fine line we trod at times.

My legs felt lifeless and my brain wasn't any stronger, but I sometimes find that once I get going, on an erg or anything else, some part of me finds enough strength of mind and body to complete the task, if grudgingly and barely. Today was such a day.

With about 800m to go I suddenly found myself short of breath. Looking at the PM5 I saw that my heartbeat was 166, within 2 beats of the highest I've ever seen on an erg (168), which explained my lack of oxygen. And several times after that I saw 168 and 169, so at least I set a new HR max record.

I didn't realize that the second and third 500m were that fast, as I was largely focused on the time/500m average display in ergData, trying to hold it at 2:07.5 +/-0.1. I obviously faded in the last 500 - my mind drifted, and when that happens my body is quite content to follow. Yes, my breathing and heart rate indicate that I was at or very near my max, which probably explain the drifts, but with a stronger mind I could have held the last 500 a lot better. On the other hand, in the grand scheme of life it doesn't matter one whit.

Code: Select all

Time 	Meters 	Pace 	Watts 	Cal/Hr 	S/M 	
8:30.3 	2,000 	2:07.5 	169 	880 	29 	163
2:07.6 	500 	2:07.6 	168 	879 	30 	154
2:07.4 	1,000 	2:07.4 	169 	882 	29 	164
2:07.3 	1,500 	2:07.3 	170 	883 	28 	168
2:08.1 	2,000 	2:08.1 	167 	873 	29 	169

[Dangerscouse]

Well, after completing the BPP a couple of weeks ago, today was the day for my 2k attempt.

Around Week 16-18 I suddenly and unexpectedly became interested in attempting this, but by Week 24 that urge had dissipated. And yet, if I'm ever going to attempt a 2k, now would be a good time, and possibly the only time I ever do so.

With that in mind, I've been playing with 1k intervals lately, and tossed out my 2:06 dream as unrealistic, which others thought was too ambitious as well. 2:08 seemed like it would be pretty easy. 2:07.5 has been suggested a few times, so I decided to shoot for that. Over 2k there's only 2s difference between 2:07.5 and 2:08.0, but it's a fine line we trod at times.

My legs felt lifeless and my brain wasn't any stronger, but I sometimes find that once I get going, on an erg or anything else, some part of me finds enough strength of mind and body to complete the task, if grudgingly and barely. Today was such a day.

With about 800m to go I suddenly found myself short of breath. Looking at the PM5 I saw that my heartbeat was 166, within 2 beats of the highest I've ever seen on an erg (168), which explained my lack of oxygen. And several times after that I saw 168 and 169, so at least I set a new HR max record.

I didn't realize that the second and third 500m were that fast, as I was largely focused on the time/500m average display in ergData, trying to hold it at 2:07.5 +/-0.1. I obviously faded in the last 500 - my mind drifted, and when that happens my body is quite content to follow. Yes, my breathing and heart rate indicate that I was at or very near my max, which probably explain the drifts, but with a stronger mind I could have held the last 500 a lot better. On the other hand, in the grand scheme of life it doesn't matter one whit.

Code: Select all

Time 	Meters 	Pace 	Watts 	Cal/Hr 	S/M 	
8:30.3 	2,000 	2:07.5 	169 	880 	29 	163
2:07.6 	500 	2:07.6 	168 	879 	30 	154
2:07.4 	1,000 	2:07.4 	169 	882 	29 	164
2:07.3 	1,500 	2:07.3 	170 	883 	28 	168
2:08.1 	2,000 	2:08.1 	167 	873 	29 	169

To be at your max HR, and slightly above, for at least 500m remaining in a 2k is a very tough place to be. Really well done for keeping it on track.

[iain]

PLI, great to see your back happier with your performance, the lighter work will probably do you good, so looking forward to seeing another move forward soon.

Reuben and Joris. Well done on excellent 2ks. Reuben, you may have found that upping your rate rather than allowing it to slow would have got you under 7:30. But that suffocating feeling is tough and hard to deal with the first time especially. Joris, looks good pacing to me. If anything, settling to pace slightly quicker for a slower first 500 might have helped you hold a slightly quicker pace through the majority. Also how much of the 4S faster was right at the end? If you crossed the line at your fastest pace you would have been better off starting your acceleration a bit earlier, but that only comes with practice as none of us feel that there is much left in the final 500 of a hard 2k!

[p_b82]

<snip>

I didn't realize that the second and third 500m were that fast, as I was largely focused on the time/500m average display in ergData, trying to hold it at 2:07.5 +/-0.1. I obviously faded in the last 500 - my mind drifted, and when that happens my body is quite content to follow. Yes, my breathing and heart rate indicate that I was at or very near my max, which probably explain the drifts, but with a stronger mind I could have held the last 500 a lot better. On the other hand, in the grand scheme of life it doesn't matter one whit.

Code: Select all

Time 	Meters 	Pace 	Watts 	Cal/Hr 	S/M 	
8:30.3 	2,000 	2:07.5 	169 	880 	29 	163
2:07.6 	500 	2:07.6 	168 	879 	30 	154
2:07.4 	1,000 	2:07.4 	169 	882 	29 	164
2:07.3 	1,500 	2:07.3 	170 	883 	28 	168
2:08.1 	2,000 	2:08.1 	167 	873 	29 	169

Looks to me like a very well flat paced 2k - only 3W difference in your splits and hardly any rate variation - Well done!

And now you know the discomfort of the flat out 2k you can (if you wish) work out how to handle that last 500 slightly differently next time.

[PleaseLockIn]

PLI, great to see your back happier with your performance, the lighter work will probably do you good, so looking forward to seeing another move forward soon.

Reuben and Joris. Well done on excellent 2ks. Reuben, you may have found that upping your rate rather than allowing it to slow would have got you under 7:30. But that suffocating feeling is tough and hard to deal with the first time especially. Joris, looks good pacing to me. If anything, settling to pace slightly quicker for a slower first 500 might have helped you hold a slightly quicker pace through the majority. Also how much of the 4S faster was right at the end? If you crossed the line at your fastest pace you would have been better off starting your acceleration a bit earlier, but that only comes with practice as none of us feel that there is much left in the final 500 of a hard 2k!

At least I know that the rowing connection issue was partially true. But new stressors (full-time intern) is NOT helping my HR. This time training twice a day for 2 days last week forced me to take my recovery into account and do some more mobility work for that. It also kept my ego in check

This week has a 5*750m 2R. I went sub 2:00 all reps at r20 for 8*500m 2R in April but I am concerned I won’t hit that. Maybe I should try 2:04 and negative splitting…

Maybe I should try doing some TTs later to see whether my strength or cardio is relatively lacking and what to do about it? Should I aim for a sub 7:40 2k?

Today - 50 min rowing. Just over 10000m. R18. But unfortunately interrupted by some dude who thought I could not use the gym…

Seems a 1 week break would require 2-3 weeks for me to get back… which isn’t good news. Maybe I am built that way.

[iain]

This week has a 5*750m 2R. I went sub 2:00 all reps at r20 for 8*500m 2R in April but I am concerned I won’t hit that. Maybe I should try 2:04 and negative splitting…

Maybe I should try doing some TTs later to see whether my strength or cardio is relatively lacking and what to do about it? Should I aim for a sub 7:40 2k?

For the lunchtime plan Pete reckoned on 3S slower for 5 x 750s than 8 x 500 on same rest (3:30). But I would say most of that difference is due to doing 500s at 3SPM higher or so (I have seen some people increase 6SPM!). SO I would say 2:04 would be a significantly easier target R20 than the 500s at 2:00 as it is a 10% reduction in work per stroke. Only you know whether the 500s were a one off, but I wouldn't back off more than 2seconds from where you could do 500s.

Re TTs, if pushed for time, I would stick to the intervals. Perhaps try unrestricted on next longer interval set and see how much you can raise the rating where pace is still increasing.

[PleaseLockIn]

This week has a 5*750m 2R. I went sub 2:00 all reps at r20 for 8*500m 2R in April but I am concerned I won’t hit that. Maybe I should try 2:04 and negative splitting…

Maybe I should try doing some TTs later to see whether my strength or cardio is relatively lacking and what to do about it? Should I aim for a sub 7:40 2k?

For the lunchtime plan Pete reckoned on 3S slower for 5 x 750s than 8 x 500 on same rest (3:30). But I would say most of that difference is due to doing 500s at 3SPM higher or so (I have seen some people increase 6SPM!). SO I would say 2:04 would be a significantly easier target R20 than the 500s at 2:00 as it is a 10% reduction in work per stroke. Only you know whether the 500s were a one off, but I wouldn't back off more than 2seconds from where you could do 500s.

Re TTs, if pushed for time, I would stick to the intervals. Perhaps try unrestricted on next longer interval set and see how much you can raise the rating where pace is still increasing.

Thanks for the advice! I would do 2:00 R20 and hold on for dear life. I’ll see whether I’m pressed for time!

[reuben]

First, congratulations to Joris and DJ on completing the plan and achieving their 2k goals! My goal was more vague (this can happen when you're 67), but I feel safe in saying that I accomplished it, however nebulous it may have been, and however much it may have varied over time. 2:06? What was I thinking?!?

To be at your max HR, and slightly above, for at least 500m remaining in a 2k is a very tough place to be. Really well done for keeping it on track.

Thanks. It was definitely tough for me.

Looking at the graph in my log, with an empirically presumed max HR of 168:
5:46: 166 bpm
6:22 - 8:30: 168-169 bpm. I was definitely "pegged", "on the rivet", or whatever term you care to use.

As far as "keeping it on track", I'm not at all sure about that. See my response to p_b82 below, where I had scattered 2:09-2:12 strokes near the end, coupled with crazy fast 2:03-2:06 strokes to compensate. In the graph I can see significant drops and surges in pace from 6:22 on, as I would fall behind, try to compensate for a few strokes, and repeat until the end. Any semblance of consistency was out the window. Mind struggling to control matter.

In any case, I think that it's now safe to say that 168/169 truly is my max HR, and not just a guesstimate.

Reuben, you may have found that upping your rate rather than allowing it to slow would have got you under 7:30. But that suffocating feeling is tough and hard to deal with the first time especially.

Let's stick with 8:30, OK?

Before the row I thought of slightly increasing the rate as compensation when I fatigued, and actually remembered it when the time came, but wasn't able to do much of it. Looking into the graph, I was very consistent at 28-29spm from about 1:30 into the row until the end.

That suffocating feeling was unlike any I've felt in running, cycling, or any other endeavor. It caught me by surprise, and I really didn't know what to make of it.

Looks to me like a very well flat paced 2k - only 3W difference in your splits and hardly any rate variation - Well done!

Most of that decrease in pace and the 3W difference came in the last 400m, where my pace was anything but flat. I mentally divided the row into the 5 splits that I thought the PM5 would generate, but it generated 4 splits. Anyway, and as mentioned, with 800m to go things got interesting. With 400m to go I was holding my pace pretty well, and I told myself, "80% done, only 400m to go!". But then things degraded rather rapidly, albeit with sporadic bounces. I remember seeing some 2:09 and 2:10 strokes. For a while I was able to throw in a few harder/faster/longer strokes to keep my overall pace intact, but that never lasted more than 2 or 3 strokes. Looking at the graph in my log, I even had a few 2:11 and 2:12 strokes, so WAY off pace. But with 20s left I found something and finished with 2:03-2:06 strokes. Purely anaerobic, no doubt.

And now you know the discomfort of the flat out 2k you can (if you wish) work out how to handle that last 500 slightly differently next time.

Yeah. Stop all 2k attempts at 1.5k!!!

Many thanks to my concurrent BPP participants, the more experienced rowers/ergers who helped guide us, and Pete!

Off topic - those were two great finals in the French Open this past weekend!

[Joris]

Well, after completing the BPP a couple of weeks ago, today was the day for my 2k attempt.

Around Week 16-18 I suddenly and unexpectedly became interested in attempting this, but by Week 24 that urge had dissipated. And yet, if I'm ever going to attempt a 2k, now would be a good time, and possibly the only time I ever do so.

Code: Select all

Time 	Meters 	Pace 	Watts 	Cal/Hr 	S/M 	
8:30.3 	2,000 	2:07.5 	169 	880 	29 	163
2:07.6 	500 	2:07.6 	168 	879 	30 	154
2:07.4 	1,000 	2:07.4 	169 	882 	29 	164
2:07.3 	1,500 	2:07.3 	170 	883 	28 	168
2:08.1 	2,000 	2:08.1 	167 	873 	29 	169

Congratulations Reuben!
A 2:08 target probably wouldn't have been too easy afterall, but it looks like you ended up choosing the perfect target to get the absolute maximum out of yourself! Well done for sticking with it!

Joris, looks good pacing to me. If anything, settling to pace slightly quicker for a slower first 500 might have helped you hold a slightly quicker pace through the majority. Also how much of the 4S faster was right at the end? If you crossed the line at your fastest pace you would have been better off starting your acceleration a bit earlier, but that only comes with practice as none of us feel that there is much left in the final 500 of a hard 2k!

My average power for the total distance was 204W, but my first 200m were at 220W and the last 100m at 240W.
So yes, I probably could have gone a little faster on average with better pacing.
But since it was my first 2k test I didn't know what pace would be sustainable and therefore, I chose not to go faster than my predetermined target pace and also not to push my acceleration at the end too soon.

[PleaseLockIn]

Congrats to all on the 2K PBs! (if they managed it)

week 15 day 3. tried 10000m again. 50 mins. 2:30 r18. My average HR was 145-ish, but my max HR is 159, even though the gym is pretty cool.

In my full time job the water refill machine had no water and i barely had a lot to drink. I regretted that instantly as after 20 min (HR = 145) my HR drifted 10+ beats in 30 minutes.

It's what I get for taking a week off and then trying to recover from this minor surgery. But at least I have a better connection. Do I ignore the brief spikes of HR 5-10 beats above the norm?

Tomorrow - 5*750m 2R. 2:00 r20.

But at least the four main lifts (OHP, Bench, Squat, Deadlift) estimated 1RMs improved 2-3kg in 3 weeks. Not bad.

2.5-3 months left, time to push through.

[iain]

the water refill machine had no water and i barely had a lot to drink. I regretted that instantly as after 20 min (HR = 145) my HR drifted 10+ beats in 30 minutes.

It's what I get for taking a week off and then trying to recover from this minor surgery. But at least I have a better connection. Do I ignore the brief spikes of HR 5-10 beats above the norm?

Dehydration will increase HR drift, so I wouldn't worry about it. ALso after a break I find my HR is always a little higher at the same RPE, so it will probably settle down if you get back to regular rowing.