Beginner Pace Question

[convective]

I've had this rower for years and I've used it now and then, but never regularly. Now I've finally started using it on a daily basis to get back in shape. While I'm not in great shape, I did martial arts for several years and stopped only a few months ago. However the inital results from my rows seem to put me in much worse shape than I think I'm in. Using moderate effort (I'm not trying to go all out until I get a little more used to it) I'm rowing 2:30/500. When I sit down and just start rowing I find myself settling into a pace of 29-30 SPM which, from what I'm reading, seems high, but my times are awful anyway, so my questions are:
From that info, is it obvious what I'm doing wrong?
What kind of pace is normal to achieve respectable times?

[Bob S.]

I've had this rower for years and I've used it now and then, but never regularly. Now I've finally started using it on a daily basis to get back in shape. While I'm not in great shape, I did martial arts for several years and stopped only a few months ago. However the inital results from my rows seem to put me in much worse shape than I think I'm in. Using moderate effort (I'm not trying to go all out until I get a little more used to it) I'm rowing 2:30/500. When I sit down and just start rowing I find myself settling into a pace of 29-30 SPM which, from what I'm reading, seems high, but my times are awful anyway, so my questions are:
From that info, is it obvious what I'm doing wrong?
What kind of pace is normal to achieve respectable times?

To get appropriate answers to your questions, you need to provide many more details — like:
What model rower are you using?
What sort of build do you have?
Age?
Gender?
Damper setting? Or, more important, drag factor? (If you have a performance monitor that shows the drag factor.)
Do you know whether or not your technique is correct?

Bob S.

[convective]

Thanks for the reply, here's some details.

I'm using the C with the PM3 (and the row pro software to give me some motivation). I'm about to turn 40, I'm 6" and about 230 lbs. The damper is set at 5 and the drag factor is 141. As far as technique, I have no idea if it is correct. I've watched the demos of correct technique and I try to emulate, but I have no idea if I am succeding.

I know I'm fat and slow, but I didn't think I was quite that fat and slow.

[Sean Seamus]

Technique and its cultivation are the bedrock of the activity.
This may have an elite, pompous tone, but it is true.

Work without regard for the output - though you can casually notice the numbers if you wish - and over time as your technique comes along you will see where in the stroke to apply pressure / power / force / oooomph !

As that happens you can begin to apply effort consistently at a given stroke rate, working at "higher" or "lower" levels on different days.

If you choose as a focus a 2,000 m race, then the fastest speed you can maintain for that duration will be done at the fastest stroke rate suitable for you and your style. But recovery, and aerobic sessions, and other such, will be done at slower speeds (and at correspondingly lower stroke rates), and usually for considerably longer times then the few minutes it takes to complete a 2 k race.

Learning to train is a skill to be learned in itself, and takes a lot of time. Then the training itself takes time, and lots of effort. While training at sub-maximal levels, many training benefits are realized, and one is the opportunity to study and practise technique. It is Way Hard to reflect on details during an all-out effort !

Futzing with "recommended" rates is always problematic, and more-so for beginners. Eventually though, you can row some of the Ranking pieces and see what your peers are doing. Don't be too sad if your numbers leave room for improvement - instead be glad at such opportunity. Some of the people on the Ranking boards are producing tremendous performances, but they may be gifted or compulsive, and in the end - unless you can find a way to go pro on one of the Big East Coast Professional Erging Teams - it's about keeping going and getting a bit better (or getting worse more slowly !)

Search "10mps" (10 meters per stroke) for related threads.

[Bob S.]

Thanks for the reply, here's some details.

I'm using the C with the PM3 (and the row pro software to give me some motivation). I'm about to turn 40, I'm 6" and about 230 lbs. The damper is set at 5 and the drag factor is 141. As far as technique, I have no idea if it is correct. I've watched the demos of correct technique and I try to emulate, but I have no idea if I am succeding.

I know I'm fat and slow, but I didn't think I was quite that fat and slow.

For technique, check out:

http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=2747064

It shows a professional erg coach instructing a beginner, so you can get the words as well as observe the movements.

At 6', 29-30spm seems too high unless you are doing short pieces, i.e. 10-15 minutes. Your weight is also a factor here, since a high rate is a disadvantage for heavy rowers. A lot of energy goes into moving you body back and forth and this energy does not show up on the PM.

A drag factor of 141 is higher than what most people use, but it is not out of line. It is a matter of feel. It would probably be worth while to experient a bit to see what DF would fit you the best.

You didn't say what sort of distances you were doing at that rate and pace. For just training pieces over 3km, I would think that a rate of about 20spm would be best. As I remember, that was about what Josh Crosby was recommending in that video.

A high stroke rate is often the result of coming up too fast on the recovery. The drive should be hard and fast and the recovery slow and relaxed. At a 20spm rate, the 3 seconds allowed for each stroke should be divided up roughly into 1 second for the drive and getting the hands away past the knees and 2 seconds for the remainder of the recovery — the forward bend and raising the knees.

Bob S.

[convective]

Well I watched the video and it was very informative. I adjusted my damper some and brought the drag down to about 110. I concentrated on slowing my recovery and it made a world of difference, but not how I expected. My time on the 5,000 was almost identical to last night but the workout felt totally different. Tonight I really felt it in my muscles and i really noticed it in my abs. Even though I didn't improve my time I feel like I got a better workout and it is much clearer to me how better conditioning will vastly improve my times. Before I thought that just cramming more strokes into the workout would make me go faster, now I see how futile that was.

Thanks for the advice, it made a big difference.