Tell me what I can pull on Sunday

csabour · Post by **csabour** » January 24th, 2008, 8:13 pm

Today I did 4x1000m with about 7min rest
pieces AVG was approx 1:43
also yesterday I did heavy weights for about 3 hrs

I have a 2k test on Sunday to prepare for a race next Sunday

Tell me whats the best I could achieve assuming that these pieces were representative of my fitness.

p.s. I have no idea

Atorrante · Post by **Atorrante** » January 24th, 2008, 8:19 pm

Rowan11088 · Post by **Rowan11088** » January 24th, 2008, 9:16 pm

I'd say somewhere between the average for those pieces (1:43, or a 6:52), and the pace for the last one you pulled, whatever that was.

sammac112 · Post by **sammac112** » January 24th, 2008, 9:49 pm

well isnt 4 x 1000 5 min rest supposed to be around 2K PB + 1.

If so, low 6:50's I would imagine.

ccwenk · Post by **ccwenk** » January 25th, 2008, 3:28 pm

For me, 4x1k w/ 4:50 rest put me at 2k-1 last season. A little slower than for 8x500 w/ 2:30 rest.

You are doing quite a bit more rest than I have normally seen for this workout, so I might guess that it is closer to 2k-2.

If this is your first 2k in a long while, I would use the 800-600-400-200 approach: 800m @ 1:46, 600m @ 1:45, 400m @ 1:44, 200m @ 1:43, shooting for a 7mim 2k. If you feel great you can always work the pace faster after 1000m. This may not produce the absolute fastest 2k you can do at this point, but it will help avoid blowing up.

Just my $.02

chgoss · Post by **chgoss** » January 26th, 2008, 10:54 pm

last year, 4 days before the CRASH-B, I did 4x1k at an average of 1:46. I pulled a 6:59.9 at CRASH-B..

You can definately get under 7:00.. My advice: hold 1:45 for the first 1500m, then forget how much it hurts and put the hammer down. Gun for 6:58.

best of luck! Let us know how you do.

csabour · Post by **csabour** » January 27th, 2008, 10:44 pm

hey guys i did a 6:53.4 avg spm 32 df 121

felt good... past quickly... I want to be under 6:50 next sunday so i think I will do what i did last week just a little faster(hopefully) and I'm going to be taking creatine everyday because i am like 5lbs under

philrow · Post by **philrow** » January 27th, 2008, 11:44 pm

csabour wrote:...I'm going to be taking creatine everyday because i am like 5lbs under

Uhhh...

Rowan11088 · Post by **Rowan11088** » January 28th, 2008, 2:39 am

csabour wrote:I'm going to be taking creatine everyday because i am like 5lbs under

Has anyone knowledgeable given you some advice on that? Because you're not supposed to take creatine more than 4 or 5 days in a row. Other than that it's not a terrible idea despite what some people may tell you...it'll give you a little boost of energy at the start of your next 2k test. But I doubt it'll give you any actual extra muscle mass, simply because of the way creatine functions (it really only helps bodybuilders).

m.calvin · Post by **m.calvin** » January 28th, 2008, 9:38 am

csabour

That 5lbs will be water in the muscles, so not much help!
Firstly, creatine will help you recover faster if taken properly and and help increase energy levels over a shot distance only .
You have to have a loading phase for this, which is about 15g a day for a full week! then you have a maintenance phase, which is about 5-10g a day for 3-4weeks.
After that you stop for at least 2 weeks, its call creatine washout.
So its a little silly to wast the money on it this close to your race, you wont help much at all.
It has been proven that creatine does not have much effect on endurance athletes, more for explosive sports like 100m sprinters!

Why are you testing on such a low drag???????
I am a lightweight(flyweight in us terms) and I test on 135 drag and all my training.

ccwenk · Post by **ccwenk** » January 28th, 2008, 2:19 pm

csabour wrote:hey guys i did a 6:53.4 avg spm 32 df 121

felt good... past quickly... I want to be under 6:50 next sunday

Great piece. Is that a PB? What were your 500m splits?

With a better idea of your capability and a definite goal in mind, I would still recommend the pacing strategy I wrote above, this time with 1:42.5 as the goal pace.

800m @ 1:43.5
600m @ 1:42.5
400m @ 1:41.5
200m @ 1:40.5

csabour · Post by **csabour** » January 28th, 2008, 10:24 pm

m.calvin wrote:csabour

That 5lbs will be water in the muscles, so not much help!
Firstly, creatine will help you recover faster if taken properly and and help increase energy levels over a shot distance only .
You have to have a loading phase for this, which is about 15g a day for a full week! then you have a maintenance phase, which is about 5-10g a day for 3-4weeks.
After that you stop for at least 2 weeks, its call creatine washout.
So its a little silly to wast the money on it this close to your race, you wont help much at all.
It has been proven that creatine does not have much effect on endurance athletes, more for explosive sports like 100m sprinters!

Why are you testing on such a low drag???????
I am a lightweight(flyweight in us terms) and I test on 135 drag and all my training.

m.calvin,

My explanation was that the extra water in my muscles will a) buffer pH during my erg pieces b) prevent dehydration risks.

and obviously my level of phospho-creatine will also be higher than usual if i were not taking anything which should provide some "free" energy in my opening 500m.

but above all, it will provide a mental assurance.... blissful ignorance can be my friend if it will help me believe i can accomplish my goals.

about the drag factor... I always train with 120 df because thats the rowing canada junior standard. I also think that its generally more beneficial for on the water rowing to be used to a "fast moving boat" i.e. less resistance per stroke.

ccwenk wrote:csabour

Great piece. Is that a PB? What were your 500m splits?

Thanks
i didn't write them down but basically something like 144,144,143,142

unfortunately it wasn't a pb... my pb was 6:49 in september and i've been playing catch up.

hopefully on sunday i can do something amazing and break 6:50

philrow · Post by **philrow** » January 29th, 2008, 12:41 am

The added mass is not all water, if you do enough resistance training. Increased interstitial fluid will help buffer pH slightly and will help with cell hydration, but not so much in terms of an endurance athlete. Creatine buffers pH slightly in weightlifters so they can push out more reps, and increases interstitial fluid which in turn allows for better cell hydration as well as an increased flow of nutrients and anabolic hormones to and waste products from cells for them. For an endurance athlete such as a rower, phosphocreatine stores, which are in fact miniscule, are depleted pretty instantaneously in production of ATP from phosphorylation of ADP. That energy is not "free;" it comes from ATP, just like all the other energy you use.

Increasing phosphocreatine stores is an interesting process. There is a lot involved dealing with timing and which chemical form of creatine to ingest. Yet, still, a vast majority of creatine goes right through users without being absorbed -- and that's with appropriate and specific usage, in weightlifting. Numbers on things like this always vary, but the average person may have 3g phosphocreatine stores, while with an appropriate and specific regimen one may obtain 4g stores.

Then, there are the potential side-effects of creatine. It's really not a great idea for young rowers. I know some damn Canadians :-p (RIDLEY RIDLEY RIDLEY!!) who have gotten sick because of using it. I've used it, but I found no value in doing so in terms of endurance performance, including 2k. It helped me with lifting, but nothing else.

I'd stick to eating Wheaties. Carbo-loading will do a lot more for you in terms of energy. I'm personally a fan of this local organic 7-whole grain cereal. Tastes like cardboard, but is approximately 127% complex carbs.

Phil

csabour · Post by **csabour** » January 29th, 2008, 1:19 am

philrow,

When I said "free energy" I meant that the energy for ATP phosphorylation comes from the phosphocreatine. AKA another high energy phosphate bond. So in the sense that it doesn't tax your aerobic system. It is "free".

Yeah... Ridley... let's not go there.

I dont find too much value in carbo-loading for a 2k. for a 6k definately but how many calories do you burn in a 2k test? 150? I think normal glycogen stores can handle that easily.

THAT SAID;

what harm could come from carbo-loading? none! so better safe than sorry. And again another mental assurance.

I'll probably carbo load AND be taking my daily creatine supplement for the race...

I'll post my result... Wish me luck[/b]

ccwenk · Post by **ccwenk** » January 29th, 2008, 11:26 am

csabour wrote: i didn't write them down but basically something like 144,144,143,142

unfortunately it wasn't a pb... my pb was 6:49 in september and i've been playing catch up.

hopefully on sunday i can do something amazing and break 6:50

Nice negative split! If you were pretty comfortable at this pace I don't think that it will take anything too amazing for you to hit your goal. With a negative split strategy, you can aim for a 6:48.5 (for a PB!) and back off target pace a little at the end if you are in trouble.

If you need a mental boost, just think of the training you have put in since your PB and know that you can do better.

I know that it is not an issue for you since you are under max weight, but there is danger in taking creatine as a lightweight if you need to dehydrate to get to weight. I hope that you and your teammates are careful with that stuff.