Pete Plan Thread

[mdpfirrman]

@ Rob - you should be pleased. That 500m interval was solid! Very nice work and thanks for posting the week!

W1/D6 - First week over. Ended with what's supposed to be one of the hardest efforts in the week 2K X 3/3' (first and last at Warm Up pace, middle one at hard effort but suboptimal).

2000 / 9:14 (2:18 pace)
2000 / 7:41.2 (1:55.3 pace, decent last 500m push) / 27 SPM
2000 / 8:58.4 (2:14 pace)

Wish I could say the middle interval was smooth and easy but it wasn't. I'm a bit tired after this week so perhaps that's it. Looking forward to the rest day tomorrow. Also did it fasted, so maybe that's it too. Would've liked to have seen at least in the 7:30s but I wasn't pushing too, too hard.

[RayOfSunshine]

BPP 24.2 5x1500m 3r, target pace: 2:02



Proper breathing = rhythm = faster pace with less effort. After 8 months, it's finally clicking. That being said, 5x1500m still sucks.

[mdpfirrman]

@ Ray - really nice 1500 X 5. Yeah, that's a brutal workout. At least with the Full PP, you get five full minutes rest between. That last rep was a very solid finish. Glad you're feeling the progress!

@ Rob - I didn't mention your 2K X 2, that was also very solid.

W2/D1 of the 5K PP -- 10K Steady State work.

2:10.7 pace today for the 10K. Didn't probably control as well as I'd like to, got a bit bored and added in a few power 10s. Might pay the price for that tomorrow on the 750 X 8. Hope not.

Finished up with a 25 minute or so CD on the Stairmaster for around 1:10 in total aerobic work. Took it pretty easy on the stairmaster, around 135 Watts to 140 Watts the entire time.

[RayOfSunshine]

BPP 25.5
4x1k, 3r



RIP BPP
12/16/2017 - 8/6/2018

[mdpfirrman]

@ Ray - very nice work! I like that you added your starting weight to your signature too. That last rep was very solid! Way to push it. 3 rest on those reps also isn't easy.

Today was W2/D2 of the 5K PP. 750m X 8/1'. One minute rest is enough to basically almost catch your breathe but not really catch it. One rep nearly got the best of me and looked up at it was 1 and I was barely strapped. Did this workout 3 weeks ago at 1:56.2, so I was hoping to improve on that.

1:54.6/29
1:54.6/28
1:53.9/27
1:54.3/27
1:55.4/27
1:55.8/27
1:57.2/27 (had to slow this one down to keep going)
1:56.8/27

1:55.3/27 Avg, so a .9 second average improvement. Not easy by any means but I'm getting more and more used to longer pain, necessary for 5K TTs. Pleased considering I probably went too hard yesterday on my SS row.

[RayOfSunshine]

1:55.3/27 Avg, so a .9 second average improvement. Not easy by any means but I'm getting more and more used to longer pain, necessary for 5K TTs. Pleased considering I probably went too hard yesterday on my SS row.

Solid work. I'm guessing that'd be about 10s off a 5k workout? So, in 3 weeks you attempt to beat that average, correct?

[mdpfirrman]

1:55.3/27 Avg, so a .9 second average improvement. Not easy by any means but I'm getting more and more used to longer pain, necessary for 5K TTs. Pleased considering I probably went too hard yesterday on my SS row.

Solid work. I'm guessing that'd be about 10s off a 5k workout? So, in 3 weeks you attempt to beat that average, correct?

Honestly I have no idea Ray, it just says try to keep the pace I did on the 500s last week, which was a 1:54.4, so on that goal I failed, but improved dramatically from the same workout around 3 weeks ago. I haven't been looking too much at them as I'm not really prepping for a race but I am pushing pretty hard. Yes, that's right, it runs in three week "cycles", like the full PP, so the idea is to see an improvement every 3 weeks or so. Toward the 12th week, you taper and do a TT. My wife, though, has planned a trip to Vegas she didn't tell me about to see my kids around Thanksgiving. I'm hoping to get most of the training done before then. Darn wife getting in the way of my rowing training! Argh!

I actually still don't feel like I'm ready (yet) to beat my old PB on the 5K. I'm likely not there yet. I would imagine once I start doing roughly around 1:52s or so on the interval work and 1:55 or so on the longer intervals, I'll be looking pretty solid to beat my PB.

[bob.haffner]

@ Bob - Congrats getting sub 7 again! That's my ultimate goal. That's impressive work already. Enjoy the off week!

Thanks, Mike!



This is kind of a Good and Bad post

The Good: I went trail riding yesterday for the first time in a while and felt really good. Time on the rower has made me better on my dirt bike

The Bad: I felt all that riding on the rower today .

Cycle 3, Week 2

Target was 1:43.5 and it got away from me

---------------2018-06-17----2018-07-09----2018-08-06-----
250------------01:45.0--------01:45.0--------01:43.4--------
500------------01:45.0--------01:45.5--------01:43.6--------
750------------01:45.1--------01:45.7--------01:44.5--------
1000-----------01:47.1--------01:46.0--------01:46.1--------
750------------01:47.9--------01:45.6--------01:45.5--------
500------------01:43.9--------01:44.5--------01:43.2--------
250------------01:30.8--------01:36.6--------01:33.2--------

AVGs-----------01:45.0--------01:44.9--------01:44.0--------

[SowfLondonRower]

Mike - nice rowing. That looks like a brutal interval - 1 minute's rest!

Ray - congrats on finishing the plan! And nice splits, those 2:00.0s appeal to the mathematician part of my brain.

I did the 3x1000m / 3min rest today (BPP 4.2), went out a bit too hard and had to really focus on keeping it together on the last interval: 1:54.7, 1:55.3, 1:57.2.

Yesterday was 6500m (BPP 4.1), and went better than I'd thought: 2:09.1 pace @19s/m (maybe that explains why I hit the wall a bit today...)

[angewes]

Started the Pete Plan 5k Lite today and subsequently discovered the 24 week beginner programme also.

I am a relatively fit 44 year old 'Doris' looking to shed some menopausal pounds, get stronger, leaner and fitter all at once (I am also a fitness and Pilates instructor but have been zero impact for 6 years - 3 ankle surgeries for arthritis - third one set me back and am only just regaining pace).

Bottom line - not sure which one to progress with. This isn't the only training I do (3 fitness classes a week also) and am also fitting it in around 2 small kids and 3 businesses - these facts are leaning me towards the 5k lite - but open to advice/thoughts.

Thanks for reading my waffle. A. x

P.S. Brain is also mush trying to sort my drive/recovery/technique/base/spm/drag F/pace/breathing etc but getting there slowly......

[Rowlers]

After thinking about it for over a year, I finally pulled the trigger and bought myself a second hand Model D PM 5 a month ago. I always liked to run in the past and have played football a lot. Due to two young kids time became a limiting factor and I started to feel less fit. When I was going to the gym in the past, I always started the workout on the Erg which I liked a lot. I think owning one now will help me exercise more and achieve a better overall fitness level.

Anyways, the first month I focused on technique and started easy by rowing 2000 meters increasing to 4000 meters at the end of the month. Yesterday I started the Beginner Pete Plan which I will be focusing on the coming months. I will try to give an update here as much as possible.

BPP 1.1 - 5000m

[mdpfirrman]

@ Rob - nice work! Keeping it together on that last rep builds rowing character! Keeping the steady rows under control is also difficult as you feel better. With the BPP, that's not as much of an issue as it is under the full PP because there's more rest days but you still want to gradually build your speed.

@ Bob - nice work on that workout. To drop nearly a second on that is impressive! Still got amazing power on that last one!

@ Agnewes - Welcome!! Your answer depends on what your goals are. You said you're reasonably fit but also haven't had much impact for a while. It can be hard staying in cardio shape unless you've done things like biking or fitness classes that are HIIT interval type workouts. Not much I've seen in fitness classes can prepare you for rowing from what I've found. It's, in my humble opinion, the hardest cardio that can be done. I spent four/five years doing mostly fitness classes (like the bootcamp type) and Spinning and wasn't in nearly the fitness level than that I am now. With that said, you have a great base of fitness, which is nice. The 5K lite is working on AT and lactate clearance and tolerance. The BPP is simply working on general aerobic fitness. If you feel your aerobic fitness is decent, I'd do the 5K lite. It's actually, though, very similar to the BPP toward the end, but you might be bored in the beginning of the BPP. I will say, though, if you don't have much rowing experience, that might be a good start. It gradually builds distance. The 5K PP assumes you've spent some time on a rower, though selfishly, I'd love to have someone else doing these intervals! I think it's up to you, do you want to gradually build up your cardio or push your envelope on anaerobic threashold work?

As far as getting started with DF and form (and everything else), I'd encourage you to make sure you review some of the threads on rear end care (wearing non cotton and possibly pads - a lot like old yoga mats retrofitted for a seat), look at videos on form on YouTube. I like Dark Horse Rowing and Decent Rowing. Also, the one with the woman at the end of the dock by Concept2 breaking down the stroke. When I began, I broke down the stroke just like that video does for every warmup. I broke down the stroke again for my wife yesterday using a clean motion on the floor with no weights. I think it helped her to better understand sequence. Most everyone (including me) hears legs first yet it's instinctually very hard to make sure that you're using legs first with arms extended with the body still slightly bent forward until right at the end of the leg drive. The flexibility that Ray mentioned above, I feel, is highly overrated. People need to be able to bring their torso to their legs. Ankle flexibility is a bit needed but make absolutely sure that you're not going up on the balls of your feet too much. That's the warning sign (to me) that I might be overextending on the catch and my knees are too far over my ankles. Practice rowing strokes staying on your flat feet, driving off the whole foot. People have a tendency when they are on the balls of their feet to use the arms more at the start of the stroke, which is incorrect. Also, work on hooking your four fingers around the handle, last one or two fingers off the handle and thumbs relatively loose. That's important for later on and not hurting your wrists, nerves. Newbies tend to do the death grip on the handle.

[RayOfSunshine]

Post-BPP

2k TT today. I had a plan based off of the video below. Target pace was 1:57 (which I estimate is slightly faster than 1:52.5 pace, or 7:30, at sea level). I was 80-90% confident I could beat that. I was a little worried because my legs are still a bit gassed from BPP 25.5 yesterday.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5_4upqhYeQ

As the great philosopher of our time said, "Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.” -- Mike Tyson

My plan blew up immediately. Came out way to hot. The C2 moved about 4-6" too. That being said, I am very pleased how I recovered & finished.
My lungs are on FIRE and legs feel a bit swollen. I will be doing some distance work the rest of this month. Then, I will do 3 weeks of the regular PP at sea level followed by another 2k TT. Based on my novice altitude adjustment (87.1% of power), I believe I would be around 7:15-7:16 which is faster than the 7:30 I was targeting.

Time Meters Pace Watts Cal/Hr S/M
7:35.7 2,000m 1:53.9 237 1113 30
0:20.1 100m 1:40.5 345 1485 39
0:21.7 200m 1:48.5 274 1242 33
0:22.7 300m 1:53.5 239 1123 32
0:23.3 400m 1:56.5 221 1061 28
0:23.1 500m 1:55.5 227 1081 31
0:23.3 600m 1:56.5 221 1061 28
0:23.2 700m 1:56.0 224 1071 31
0:23.2 800m 1:56.0 224 1071 31
0:23.3 900m 1:56.5 221 1061 28
0:23.4 1,000m 1:57.0 219 1051 31
0:23.2 1,100m 1:56.0 224 1071 29
0:23.1 1,200m 1:55.5 227 1081 29
0:23.0 1,300m 1:55.0 230 1091 31
0:22.8 1,400m 1:54.0 236 1112 29
0:23.1 1,500m 1:55.5 227 1081 29
0:23.0 1,600m 1:55.0 230 1091 29
0:23.0 1,700m 1:55.0 230 1091 31
0:22.9 1,800m 1:54.5 233 1101 29
0:22.8 1,900m 1:54.0 236 1112 29
0:22.5 2,000m 1:52.5 246 1145 32

[angewes]

Mike - that is super helpful - thanks so much for taking the time to write. So, I have owned a C2 on and off for over a decade (upgraded to an E, 2 years ago) but have also been a mum since about a year after buying the first one, then a single mum, so it's been mostly dormant - life gets in the way. That said, it isn't now and I am 'on it'.

I have a seat pad (have had for years - a must in my opinion) and definitely need to work on my death grip. I follow Dark horse and have watched the chick on the pier video too - this made me realise (after videoing myself) that I wasn't extending my arms quick enough on the recovery. I have also reviewed the DF blog on the website and am working with 115 - which seems about right for me.

Form is an issue - lower limb arthritis (3 ankle surgeries mentioned) has left me with quite limited mobility/flexibility at the ankle - I find it next to impossible not to lift my heels almost immediately (thanks to your helpful insight I now realise this is perhaps why I pull with the arms too soon - which I knew I was doing and need to work on). Not sure how to tackle this but will try.

I a going to stick with the lite - I also noticed it's similar to the back end on the BPP - I think I am fit enough - for a 44 yr old anyway. My 2k is at 8:24 and my 5k at 21:48 so think my fitness is good enough to progress without going right back to basics. Thanks for your thoughts - they are aligned with mine. Appreciated.

When I do the distance pieces I am going to completely forget about time and really try and sort my form (pushing those arms out - thereby not lifting them over the knees - already feels way more efficient (when I remember to do it - this old dog WILL learn new tricks)).

So - Legs, heels and breathing are my initial points to work on - Week one, session one done. Ha! Watch this space. Thanks again. A

[mdpfirrman]

@ Ray - that's a really nice 2K TT for your first hard go at it! Outstanding. I had to laugh a little, though, you going out too excited. I think we all have done that. If you can get under 7:20 once nearer sea level, that would be awesome. Very impressed! To finish one like that really takes some mental guts to be honest. Be very proud of that! You were like a rocket at takeoff on that first 100m!

@ Ange - glad to have you on here! Your times are solid for a newer rower so, yeah, your fitness seems good to start. 115 DF, to me, might be a little high in my honest opinion, but it's whatever you feel best at. To give you some frame of reference, I rowed a 7:11 this past year (my PB) at 103 DF. My comfortable DF is around a 105 for a 2K and around a 106 to 108 for longer rows. I might push it up a bit higher on shorter sprints. I personally get a lot more tired and lose form with higher DFs on longer rows. At higher DFs you tend to rate (Stroked per Minute or SPM) lower. Essentially, your power/watts generated will be higher but you'll generally hit a lactic acid ceiling sooner too. Just some food for thought. I'd play around with it if you're feeling fatigued. You're thinking a lot like a lifter. Power is generated from the speed of the drive, not the DF. It helped me after a few years of rowing when some former bikers on here likened DF to gears of a bike. If you have two riders up a long hill and one has it in a higher gear and beats the one in the lower gear, does it matter what gear they were in? Anyone that has lifted has a bit of an ego. I found getting over mine and lowering the DF helped me tremendously. And if you can keep up the SR (stroke rate), you stay fast at pace and drive speed. If you don't have ErgData, it's a great tool too to see what I'm talking about.


W2/D3 of the 5K PP - 10K SS. 2:11.3 pace average. Finished with 10 minutes on Stairmaster for CD.

Wow I struggled with this today. I mean big time! I've posted before on my weight issues of the past and I have a "red line" that I don't go beyond. I hadn't been weighing myself that much recently then got on the scale this weekend and was pushing over 195 (my red line that I don't like to get above). I'm still around 22% body fat so not that big but I feel better at around 190 (around 19 or 20% body fat) so I started restricting calories a bit. Ate hummus of all things and veggies after the hard interval session last night, did weights last night and still didn't eat enough calories/protein. I'm mostly plant based any more but realized the hard way today if I'm calorie restricting, better be a lot of protein in that percentage. I know too much about nutrition to make these kinds of mistakes but I'll be more careful not to repeat. Felt like garbage today.

These plans are hard and take proper nutrition while doing them for sure!