Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State ...?

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aussieluke
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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by aussieluke » September 18th, 2016, 10:00 pm

mdpfirrman wrote:
aussieluke wrote:
Distance / endurance work:

The final group of sessions is the distance, or endurance work. The main concept behind the Pete Plan is that you do one speed interval session, and one endurance interval session per week, and then as much distance work as you have time for. Where this plan diverges from many of the other plans out there is with the stroke rate I advise to do this distance work at. I recommend a minimum of 22spm, and for general “steady” distance work a maximum of 25spm. On this document I have simply put the “steady distance” sessions as approximately 8 to 15k in distance. That is just a recommendation of a good distance to go for, but if you’re new to indoor rowing you might like to start out much shorter, or if you have the time and inclination you might like to go longer. Resist the temptation to row these too hard though, save that for the other three days. One day each week is devoted to a hard distance piece. You might like to rotate this through the ranking distances, or do the same distance for a few weeks at a time. Hard distance doesn’t have to mean flat out every week, just that you can go faster than the steady distance days, and over the 25spm limit.
Luke - I think you're confusing the hard distance day with steady state work. "Steady state" work as defined by Wolverine and here in the PP is entirely different than the 3 recovery days of the PP. This is the "hard distance day" - the third hard workout of the week on the PP. Here, Marston is defining the hard distance day, not the 3 recovery days - for which Marston just says work at a rate comfortable to you and when in doubt, row easier. What Glenn (and Bob) were saying is just take this hard 3rd day out of the PP and you have a great plan to work with - 4 days of SS work and two days of intervals. I think that's a great idea. You don't lose your speed and roughly 80% of your work would be SS work. Don't forget too on the PP, you should warmup and cool down on all interval days. Especially the speed interval days.
To me he clearly says above that STEADY distance work should be 22-25 and HARD distance can be above the 25 limit.

He also says at the start that he based his plan on the WP but removed all the low rate long steady work.
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Started rowing Feb 2016
500m 1:33.2
2000m 6:57.4
5000m 18:47.6

aussieluke
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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by aussieluke » September 18th, 2016, 10:05 pm

G-dub wrote:Luke, we kick this around too much in the PP threads, at least I do :D (much to the boredom of my teammates). Bob is right, you can shape it to fit your current needs a bit. The Hard Distance day, in my opinion, would be a good day to swap for a long distance piece. The other two interval days have big pay offs. The SS days can be anything you want - like you I enjoy 3 x 20 and have done it about once a week while on the plan. The challenge is that we tend to enjoy taking on the hard distance days though and manage to PB mid distance pieces while doing it, so it would take some discipline not to get caught up in that. Come join us. We are having fun. and people are really improving on all fronts.
Yeah I think it makes sense to me to do something like 3x20' on the three steady days. I haven't done any free rated distance work for a long time so would be fun to try. Certainly wouldn't be doing any more than 5 or 6k and not at max effort.

I think I will give it a go for a while. I will try it as per the plan as written, but if I feel 22 is too high on the steady days I'll drop back to my usual 19. It's not like that is going to ruin the entire plan now is it.
Male, 35, 5'10", 78kg
Started rowing Feb 2016
500m 1:33.2
2000m 6:57.4
5000m 18:47.6

gooseflight
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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by gooseflight » September 19th, 2016, 2:46 am

The OP asked about periodisation. The Pete Plan is most deinfitely not a periodised plan. And yes, if you muck about with it, it's no longer The Plan.

Luke is already well into his steady state work and just needs to add a couple of HIT sessions per week. Sure these could come from the Pete Plan, but the HIT sessions there existed well before the Pete Plan.

Time for the Luke Plan ;)
Roy Walter
M55 | 185cm | 90kg | Journeyman Erger
PBs (2004): 6:38 (2K) | 5:22.9 (mile) | 17:39.6 (5K) | 8323 (30 mins) | 36:52 (10K) | 1:22:03 (HM '05)

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hjs
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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by hjs » September 19th, 2016, 3:24 am

gooseflight wrote:The OP asked about periodisation. The Pete Plan is most deinfitely not a periodised plan. And yes, if you muck about with it, it's no longer The Plan.

Luke is already well into his steady state work and just needs to add a couple of HIT sessions per week. Sure these could come from the Pete Plan, but the HIT sessions there existed well before the Pete Plan.

Time for the Luke Plan ;)
Amen :wink:

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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by hjs » September 19th, 2016, 3:36 am

paul45 wrote:You know some should actually read the PP :roll:

Swapping a 5k 0r 6k or 30' hard for a longer row is the easy way out, you have everything
in that plan, if you take out those hard distances you are not doing the PP.

You have everything in it, also 4 x 1k, the hard distance 5k+ is building mental strength
also they are great for the fitness, most don't do them for one reason only they bloody
well hurt, ah one gets into a rhythm, :roll:

If you want a good 2k while doing the PP, simple do one every week or two weeks, start 2kr20 best you can,
next week 2kr22 2 sec faster, next week 2k r24 first 1500m 2 sec faster in pace free rate last 500m,
next week 2kr26 2 sec faster in pace free rate last 500m, next week 2kr28 2 sec faster in pace first 1500m
free rate last 500m.

Those hard distances fear most that's why they don't do them in PP, they hurt.

Those that do i admire them, but they are great for mental strength.

Do a few cycles see how you feel, you should feel tired, beaten up, exhausted, but the fitness
that comes from hard work in the plan is second to none, but it should hurt :D

Most hate a hard 5k,6k,30,60' cause they are damn hard distances also as is a 2k.
Paul you need lecture, you are fit as ... NOT FIT, instead of telling everybody how it should be done, what about getting your own fitness a bit on rails again. Compared to your pb s you are a landmile away. Its not your training but your overal lifestyle. You and I are the same age and height, and yet I almost can do with one hand what you do with 2. Think about that, its almost embarrising. On top of that I have/had al sorts of phycical trouble, broke my back for, had a 90% paralised right leg due to that.
Now its totally irrelevant what I do or don,t, but at least I leas a but by example, you are exactly showing how it NOT SHOULD be done.
Instead of TELLING. people what to do, SHOW them what to do. That means doing the pp yourself, 100% written like it is.

At the moment you are annouying. Get an grip and get your lousy fitness / lifestyle on the rail again.

Sorry to be so harse, but you need it!!

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hjs
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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by hjs » September 19th, 2016, 3:53 am

Paul, really I am serious, ofcourse you only have to do things for yourself. Your fitness is not good at all. And you are the one who knows Why. Work on that.
And plans are fine, but nothing magical, Continuety and learning what works is much more important. Pp is fine for some, but far from the holy grail.

Dub 17 5k not true Paul, Never been a goal for me. Plus I have a string of 142.x 6k s. Thats a race over here. I have a more broad look at my fitness. Not just rowing.

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hjs
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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by hjs » September 19th, 2016, 4:15 am

paul45 wrote:
My personal life i am lucky to do a warm up let alone a session, fact, so don't have a pop
at someone who has adapted to keep fit.

Im leaving it there.
Denial Paul, DARE to be honoust to YOURSELF. I a not having a pop at you at all. Put all the posting energy you have in your own training. Lead by example that way.

Also last post about this here. We are AGAIN messing up a thread.

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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by aussieluke » September 19th, 2016, 4:24 am

gooseflight wrote:The OP asked about periodisation. The Pete Plan is most deinfitely not a periodised plan. And yes, if you muck about with it, it's no longer The Plan.

Luke is already well into his steady state work and just needs to add a couple of HIT sessions per week. Sure these could come from the Pete Plan, but the HIT sessions there existed well before the Pete Plan.

Time for the Luke Plan ;)
Just to clarify - I know it isn't a periodised plan - the opposite in fact. I was suggesting alternating it in a sort of 'block periodisation ' way with pure SS work. Eg. Three weeks Pete Plan, two weeks SS, three weeks Pete Plan etc. mix of both worlds ...master of none ...but again I'm talking fitness not specific racing or OTW rowing goals.
Male, 35, 5'10", 78kg
Started rowing Feb 2016
500m 1:33.2
2000m 6:57.4
5000m 18:47.6

aussieluke
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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by aussieluke » September 19th, 2016, 4:28 am

Anyway, I have jumped on board. For better or worse I have started the Pete Plan, as written, and will see how I feel after at least two 3-week cycles.

Day 1

2000m warmup

8 x 500m / 3:30r

1000m cooldown

https://instagram.com/p/BKh6BBugHF5xKb3 ... yeUMFbj00/
Male, 35, 5'10", 78kg
Started rowing Feb 2016
500m 1:33.2
2000m 6:57.4
5000m 18:47.6

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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by gooseflight » September 19th, 2016, 4:59 am

aussieluke wrote:but again I'm talking fitness not specific racing or OTW rowing goals.
Ah, I though you were after a sub 7 2K ;)

You only need to find 18 watts per 500m. If you just added two HIT sessions to your routine for a month you would break 7:00.

I would definitely include 8 x 500m and work towards 1:40 pace in a few weeks time.

Research tells us that 'unsupervised' rowers go too hard on distance pieces and not hard enough on intervals. That's the danger with the PP.

EDIT: I should add that given your age and stats, a few weeks of the [sort of] Pete Plan will see you under 7:00 anyway because it does at least introduce the speed work that you have left alone so far.
Roy Walter
M55 | 185cm | 90kg | Journeyman Erger
PBs (2004): 6:38 (2K) | 5:22.9 (mile) | 17:39.6 (5K) | 8323 (30 mins) | 36:52 (10K) | 1:22:03 (HM '05)

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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by aussieluke » September 19th, 2016, 5:04 am

gooseflight wrote:
aussieluke wrote:but again I'm talking fitness not specific racing or OTW rowing goals.
Ah, I though you were after a sub 7 2K ;)

You only need to find 18 watts per 500m. If you just added two HIT sessions to your routine for a month you would break 7:00.

I would definitely include 8 x 500m and work towards 1:40 pace in a few weeks time.

Research tells us that 'unsupervised' rowers go too hard on distance pieces and not hard enough on intervals. That's the danger with the PP.
Yeah but not training for a specific race in a specific time frame, is what I meant
Male, 35, 5'10", 78kg
Started rowing Feb 2016
500m 1:33.2
2000m 6:57.4
5000m 18:47.6

gooseflight
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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by gooseflight » September 19th, 2016, 5:20 am

Just to clarify, that's "two HIT sessions per week".
Roy Walter
M55 | 185cm | 90kg | Journeyman Erger
PBs (2004): 6:38 (2K) | 5:22.9 (mile) | 17:39.6 (5K) | 8323 (30 mins) | 36:52 (10K) | 1:22:03 (HM '05)

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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by lindsayh » September 19th, 2016, 5:54 am

hjs wrote:[aul you need lecture, you are fit as ... NOT FIT, instead of telling everybody how it should be done, what about getting your own fitness a bit on rails again. Instead of TELLING. people what to do, SHOW them what to do. That means doing the pp yourself, 100% written like it is.
At the moment you are annouying. Get an grip and get your lousy fitness / lifestyle on the rail again.
Sorry to be so harse, but you need it!!
Paul with respect and best wishes (and I mean that) what henry has said needed to be said - eventually too many comments have become very disruptive to the entire forum and as you know it has happened before. It would be much better to spend your energy and enthusiasm on working on your own fitness and life and not be distracted so much by all that is happening here. The PP thread is by and large for those doing the Plan and commenting from the sidelines is really counter productive at times. it would be way better to head down and tail up and hit the erg hard and often and log the results on the training thread - other wise it will only end in tears I am afraid.
Lindsay
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Sydney Australia
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PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m

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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by sander » September 19th, 2016, 7:50 am

hjs wrote:
gooseflight wrote:The OP asked about periodisation. The Pete Plan is most deinfitely not a periodised plan. And yes, if you muck about with it, it's no longer The Plan.

Luke is already well into his steady state work and just needs to add a couple of HIT sessions per week. Sure these could come from the Pete Plan, but the HIT sessions there existed well before the Pete Plan.

Time for the Luke Plan ;)
Amen :wink:
Agreeing with this as well. Good advice on the first page of this thread.
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Re: Block periodisation - Pete Plan / Low Rate Steady State

Post by mdpfirrman » September 19th, 2016, 8:53 am

aussieluke wrote:
The final group of sessions is the distance, or endurance work. The main concept behind the Pete Plan is that you do one speed interval session, and one endurance interval session per week, and then as much distance work as you have time for. Where this plan diverges from many of the other plans out there is with the stroke rate I advise to do this distance work at. I recommend a minimum of 22spm, and for general “steady” distance work a maximum of 25spm. On this document I have simply put the “steady distance” sessions as approximately 8 to 15k in distance. That is just a recommendation of a good distance to go for, but if you’re new to indoor rowing you might like to start out much shorter, or if you have the time and inclination you might like to go longer. Resist the temptation to row these too hard though, save that for the other three days. One day each week is devoted to a hard distance piece. You might like to rotate this through the ranking distances, or do the same distance for a few weeks at a time. Hard distance doesn’t have to mean flat out every week, just that you can go faster than the steady distance days, and over the 25spm limit.

You're right Luke, sorry I was confused. I read your quote too fast the first time. He is referring here to the recovery rows or the SS work here. Sorry that I was confused. I was simply meaning to point out that he says "resist the temptation to row these too hard". But you are right here, this is the SS or recovery work.

As far as PP / versus other plans - I've gained a really solid appreciation now of what Henry was telling me (and others) a while back. Many of us just complicate it too much. Essentially, just row lots of meters at a comfortably challenging pace and you'll do great. Adding in HIIT, whether PP or anything else will just "sharpen" what you've gained from all the slow, strong meters.
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