Indeed, most athletes start with a long ut2 session, which is proberly something doable. Also think lots of those early trainees, go to bed early...Anth_F wrote:I cba to even go to the toilet @ that time of the morning
Btw "train seriously" only means HIT is a bunch of baloney.
How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the erg?
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hjs
- Marathon Poster
- Posts: 10076
- Joined: March 16th, 2006, 3:18 pm
- Location: Amstelveen the netherlands
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
Absolutely.hjs wrote:Indeed, most athletes start with a long ut2 session, which is proberly something doable. Also think lots of those early trainees, go to bed early...Anth_F wrote:I cba to even go to the toilet @ that time of the morning
Btw "train seriously" only means HIT is a bunch of baloney.
I mean for example, i take my erg training very seriously when i'm on there. But the majority of my erg training is not HIT at all.
46 yo male 5'10 88kg (Rowing since june 9th 2016) PB's 5k 19:22 30min 7518m
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
HIT I think is very important to help limit natural degredation in VO2max as we age. Of course you have to underpin that with some base conditioning. Anyway, we digress...
Paul, 49M, 5'11" 83kg (sprint PBs HWT), ex biker now lifting
Deadlift=190kg, LP=1:15, 100m=15.7s, 1min=350m
Targets: 14s (100m), 355m+ 1min, 1:27(500m), 3:11(1K)
Erg on!
Deadlift=190kg, LP=1:15, 100m=15.7s, 1min=350m
Targets: 14s (100m), 355m+ 1min, 1:27(500m), 3:11(1K)
Erg on!
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G-dub
- Half Marathon Poster
- Posts: 3215
- Joined: September 27th, 2014, 12:52 pm
- Location: Asheville, NC
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
Getting ready to race - its starts for me a few days out with nerves and an antsy feeling - this of course after a month or so of whining about it. Then I wonder why I am doing it - is it really important??. Then I calm down and say WTF. Biggest challenge for me is to stay relaxed during warm up and to let the intensity and good vibes come up. I too like caffeine. And listening to some tunes that get me feeling groovy. I like to get a little stretch in. I think my "cottage balls" are to sit relaxed and beat and shake my legs a bit. Some little jumps maybe. Some big breaths in and out. A feeling of dread (or is that excitement?). Then a smile. Then... I count strokes and let my eyes almost shut so that I get into a little trance. Usually I use a 30 stroke count. Maybe through the middle I try to let my mind wander by looking at something in the distance for a bit - sort of to waste some time and distract my growing bad thoughts. Then back to counting. Then hopefully I can get to the last 3 sets of 10 counts and begin the process of groping for air and wondering why.
Glenn Walters: 5'-8" X 192 lbs. Bday 01/09/1962
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Dangerscouse
- Marathon Poster
- Posts: 11095
- Joined: April 27th, 2014, 11:11 am
- Location: Liverpool, England
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
I always train at 6am on weekdays, and about 7am on weekends; I can't train later in the day as the gym is far too full of vain people posing like peacocks.
51 HWT; 6' 4"; 1k= 3:09; 2k= 6:36; 5k= 17:19; 6k= 20:47; 10k= 35:46 30mins= 8,488m 60mins= 16,618m HM= 1:16.47; FM= 2:40:41; 50k= 3:16:09; 100k= 7:52:44; 12hrs = 153km
"You reap what you row"
Instagram: stuwenman
"You reap what you row"
Instagram: stuwenman
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
This is an excerpt from an old post I had on how to do a PB. I think the most important thing is to trust your training and control all the extraneous variable you can.
Paul
Trust your training/Know your training
You cannot do better than your training will allow. There will be no "miracles on the erg". In fact, it is likely that you will do slightly worse than your training will allow due to psychological reasons. Try some of the known predictors of 2k times are 8x500 or 4x1000 with varying degree of rest between intervals. Search on this forum for predictors. For me the best predictor is an all out 1k. That's usually my 2k pace minus 4-5 seconds. Many people swear by the 1x2k with unlimited rest.
The point here is to avoid the fly and die which is the most painful way to complete a 2k, by picking a pace you can finish at.
Pick a Pace
On this forum you will find several discussions about 2k strategy and pace. There is no clear consensus, except from a physics point of view the most efficient strategy is keep a steady pace. There may be psychological or physiological reasons to do something different such as negative splits, but you can't argue about the physics. Furthermore, steady pace is the easiest strategy to remember.
Pick a Place
Somebody must have done a PB at CRASH B but I don't know who they are. Most of my PBs have been in my own private ergotorium. Or at least, pick a small local venue where you know the environment to attempt at PB. For a first time competitor the CRASH B environment can be overwhelming and distracting.
Pick a lot of 2ks
Jon Bone (Navigation Hazard) who used to populate this forum used to say defetishize the 2k by doing lots of them in training. I prefer to say undemonize the 2k by incorporating many of them into your training as AT intervals. Get used to seeing the meters tick down and realizing that you will not die.
Control extraneous variables
I did my modest 2k PB (7:11) as a 57 YO LWT. I had a good idea of my pace based on two previous 1ks. I had it planned out a few days before my attempt. I was following the IP and stopped erging a few days before the attempt on the weekend. I was well hydrated the day before and got a good night's sleep. I planned out the day of my attempt by eating a late breakfast, taking it easy during the day, a light lunch, cup of coffee, and then a nap. I then sat down of the erg, did the Eddie Fletcher warm up, rested a few minutes, and decided I will now do a PB. It was flat paced until I had about 300 m to go and the brain said to the legs, "start sprinting!" The legs radioed back that this is all there was and if you ask again we are going to slow down. So I just held on with a flat pace to the end. The point is I controlled all that I could control and left the rest up to my training. Yes it hurt but it was an achievable goal and the recovery was fairly fast. And it was worth it.
Paul
Trust your training/Know your training
You cannot do better than your training will allow. There will be no "miracles on the erg". In fact, it is likely that you will do slightly worse than your training will allow due to psychological reasons. Try some of the known predictors of 2k times are 8x500 or 4x1000 with varying degree of rest between intervals. Search on this forum for predictors. For me the best predictor is an all out 1k. That's usually my 2k pace minus 4-5 seconds. Many people swear by the 1x2k with unlimited rest.
The point here is to avoid the fly and die which is the most painful way to complete a 2k, by picking a pace you can finish at.Pick a Pace
On this forum you will find several discussions about 2k strategy and pace. There is no clear consensus, except from a physics point of view the most efficient strategy is keep a steady pace. There may be psychological or physiological reasons to do something different such as negative splits, but you can't argue about the physics. Furthermore, steady pace is the easiest strategy to remember.
Pick a Place
Somebody must have done a PB at CRASH B but I don't know who they are. Most of my PBs have been in my own private ergotorium. Or at least, pick a small local venue where you know the environment to attempt at PB. For a first time competitor the CRASH B environment can be overwhelming and distracting.
Pick a lot of 2ks
Jon Bone (Navigation Hazard) who used to populate this forum used to say defetishize the 2k by doing lots of them in training. I prefer to say undemonize the 2k by incorporating many of them into your training as AT intervals. Get used to seeing the meters tick down and realizing that you will not die.
Control extraneous variables
I did my modest 2k PB (7:11) as a 57 YO LWT. I had a good idea of my pace based on two previous 1ks. I had it planned out a few days before my attempt. I was following the IP and stopped erging a few days before the attempt on the weekend. I was well hydrated the day before and got a good night's sleep. I planned out the day of my attempt by eating a late breakfast, taking it easy during the day, a light lunch, cup of coffee, and then a nap. I then sat down of the erg, did the Eddie Fletcher warm up, rested a few minutes, and decided I will now do a PB. It was flat paced until I had about 300 m to go and the brain said to the legs, "start sprinting!" The legs radioed back that this is all there was and if you ask again we are going to slow down. So I just held on with a flat pace to the end. The point is I controlled all that I could control and left the rest up to my training. Yes it hurt but it was an achievable goal and the recovery was fairly fast. And it was worth it.
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Edward4492
- 10k Poster
- Posts: 1615
- Joined: March 7th, 2014, 11:34 pm
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
Great post Paul (and everyone else)! I recently started training early am, very early. This week was Monday to Friday, up at 4:00am, rowing away from the dock at 5:15am, back in at 6:15am. I could not fathom erging at this un-Godly hour; but the river is a totally different situation. The sunrises range from beautiful to fantastic, it's the coolest time of day, and you have lots of dead-calm days. Lots of sensory input. I usually do (2) hard and (4) easy sessions per week.It may surprise you, but there's a bunch of us aging Masters out there. Two women's quads and a couple of singles out with our team coach in the competition group. Me, Mike, Joanne out in our singles. After a few weeks it just becomes routine, and of course it will end sometime in September/ October with daylight, weather etc. I'll be back to my evening schedule when I get back on the erg.
I pretty much learned to mitigate the "fear factor" of doing an event (been to C/B's four times, twenty total erg events) by doing what Paul suggests. Find your number and just do it. My protocol which has resulted in lots of PB's for myself and others is simple. Set the monitor for 2000m and 250m splits and do a series of sessions on consecutive days (or every other day). Determine what you think you can do, let's say you think 7min is do-able. Day 1 do 500m at a 1:45 or a second faster; then stop. Check your splits in memory and see how ya did. Next day same thing, but 750m, then 1000m , and the last session is 1250m. Obviously you should feel pretty good doing the 500m. By the time you get to the 1250m; you'll know. If you can't hold the pace for 1250m (or 750m or 1000m) it's not going to happen on race day. I agree with Paul, 2k pace seems to be around 1k PB plus 5-6s.Last year my best 1k was 3:26, best 2k was 7:17. so; 1:43 vs 1:48.
Going into an event with a number that has been determined through intelligent preparation cuts the stress level way down. During the event when I start to hit the "death zone" from around 1200m to go down to 600m I just tell myself "this is it, maximum pain"; it won't get any worse from here on in. The most important lesson I've had to learn was self discipline in the first 500m. It's very tempting to want to get ahead of it and "bank" some seconds when you're fresh. It simply does not work. You pay dearly.
Racing OTW ( in my very limited experience) is totally different because there's no monitor inflicted stress and there's lots of variables. And your totally engaged between the other boats, trying to row straight and clean, and the water and weather are always different. My first 1x race I went 10s faster than I thought possible thanks to a heavy current from a rain storm the night before. Lots of team PB's that day OTW.
I have some other self-inflicted stress as I'm rowing as a LWT, OTW this means 160lbs. And as most of you know it's no BS. Racing on 8/5, step on the scale at 7:00 am day of the event. Boston is the same.\, except the erg LWT is 165lbs, much easier to hit. Again, I mitigate the stress by hitting my number early, weighing in every morning now at 158-159. I don't want to be jogging in a rubber suit on race day trying to dehydrate myself.
So it's really about preparation and eliminating variables so that on the day of the event (including a personal PB attempt in the gym or the garage) it's just a final run through. And if you come up short, it will,probably be by a little, not a lot. Or, if its your day, you'll push it to a new level in the final 500m.
I pretty much learned to mitigate the "fear factor" of doing an event (been to C/B's four times, twenty total erg events) by doing what Paul suggests. Find your number and just do it. My protocol which has resulted in lots of PB's for myself and others is simple. Set the monitor for 2000m and 250m splits and do a series of sessions on consecutive days (or every other day). Determine what you think you can do, let's say you think 7min is do-able. Day 1 do 500m at a 1:45 or a second faster; then stop. Check your splits in memory and see how ya did. Next day same thing, but 750m, then 1000m , and the last session is 1250m. Obviously you should feel pretty good doing the 500m. By the time you get to the 1250m; you'll know. If you can't hold the pace for 1250m (or 750m or 1000m) it's not going to happen on race day. I agree with Paul, 2k pace seems to be around 1k PB plus 5-6s.Last year my best 1k was 3:26, best 2k was 7:17. so; 1:43 vs 1:48.
Going into an event with a number that has been determined through intelligent preparation cuts the stress level way down. During the event when I start to hit the "death zone" from around 1200m to go down to 600m I just tell myself "this is it, maximum pain"; it won't get any worse from here on in. The most important lesson I've had to learn was self discipline in the first 500m. It's very tempting to want to get ahead of it and "bank" some seconds when you're fresh. It simply does not work. You pay dearly.
Racing OTW ( in my very limited experience) is totally different because there's no monitor inflicted stress and there's lots of variables. And your totally engaged between the other boats, trying to row straight and clean, and the water and weather are always different. My first 1x race I went 10s faster than I thought possible thanks to a heavy current from a rain storm the night before. Lots of team PB's that day OTW.
I have some other self-inflicted stress as I'm rowing as a LWT, OTW this means 160lbs. And as most of you know it's no BS. Racing on 8/5, step on the scale at 7:00 am day of the event. Boston is the same.\, except the erg LWT is 165lbs, much easier to hit. Again, I mitigate the stress by hitting my number early, weighing in every morning now at 158-159. I don't want to be jogging in a rubber suit on race day trying to dehydrate myself.
So it's really about preparation and eliminating variables so that on the day of the event (including a personal PB attempt in the gym or the garage) it's just a final run through. And if you come up short, it will,probably be by a little, not a lot. Or, if its your day, you'll push it to a new level in the final 500m.
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
Below is a copy of a post I put on the Pete Plan pages back a couple months ago. I don't think it's anything you don't already know, but it helped me make a jump in my training. In addition to that, I also believe in lifting before rowing. I only lift for 15-20 minutes but I believe it gets your physiology ready for rowing. The lifting, in my mind is more of a suggestion for an interval day, not a PB day. Also, as others have said in one way or another, I believe that doing time trials at the distance you intend to compete at, in advance of your big competition day, is one of the best training days you can have.
Here is the previous post regarding your question:
"One of the things I've learned just in the last month is the importance of a long warm-up. I used to row for about 5 to 10 minutes and then go for my workout.
Recently I found this warm-up on the website: http://www.ergrowing.com/rowing-rhythm-workout/
Warm Up:
Warm up for around 20 minutes with some solid rowing (which includes):
After around 10 minutes do a 1 minute pipe opener rating 30 – 32 rowing hard.
Next (after a short break) do 3 x 15 strokes at rate 32, 34 and 36 respectively.
Take around 1 minute easy rowing between each 15 stroke push.
Finally do some easy rowing for 2 – 3 minutes and get ready for the actual rowing session.
So... this ends up being a 20 minute warm-up which is time consuming, but it does a great job of getting your body physiology geared up for a hard workout. Then you can go harder during your workout right from the get-go.
I was a high school wrestler, and I learned through the years that you are never as tired in your second match of the day as you are in your first. You body is already in the zone. Your muscles & lungs don't get that burn."
PS - I usually rest for 5 minutes after the above warm-up, before beginning my workout. On the day of going for a PB, I rested for about 12 minutes after this before beginning my PB attempt.
Here is the previous post regarding your question:
"One of the things I've learned just in the last month is the importance of a long warm-up. I used to row for about 5 to 10 minutes and then go for my workout.
Recently I found this warm-up on the website: http://www.ergrowing.com/rowing-rhythm-workout/
Warm Up:
Warm up for around 20 minutes with some solid rowing (which includes):
After around 10 minutes do a 1 minute pipe opener rating 30 – 32 rowing hard.
Next (after a short break) do 3 x 15 strokes at rate 32, 34 and 36 respectively.
Take around 1 minute easy rowing between each 15 stroke push.
Finally do some easy rowing for 2 – 3 minutes and get ready for the actual rowing session.
So... this ends up being a 20 minute warm-up which is time consuming, but it does a great job of getting your body physiology geared up for a hard workout. Then you can go harder during your workout right from the get-go.
I was a high school wrestler, and I learned through the years that you are never as tired in your second match of the day as you are in your first. You body is already in the zone. Your muscles & lungs don't get that burn."
PS - I usually rest for 5 minutes after the above warm-up, before beginning my workout. On the day of going for a PB, I rested for about 12 minutes after this before beginning my PB attempt.
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
Rlboyles points out the need for a good warm up. The Eddie Fletcher warm up also takes about 20 minutes and I think this is the minimum you should do for a 2k or 1k PB attempt. All of my PBs have been after extensive warm ups and I remember a 1k competition at 0800 that I just couldn't get loose for even after a 20 minute warm up. The first 500 m was an extension of the warm up and there was not enough race left to get to my target pace. Early morning races my require even a longer warm up.
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
I was going to steal this quote for my sigPaulG wrote: There will be no "miracles on the erg".
46 yo male 5'10 88kg (Rowing since june 9th 2016) PB's 5k 19:22 30min 7518m
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
whats HIIT?
I quite like a longish UT2/3 in the morning before breakfast and kids. Anything else is not doable for me.
I don't really need any motivation for that.
I'm the only early morning person in the house (Dexter the malteser doesn't count) , in summer i might feel the erge to row at 5, weekends i'm usually the only person up and about until 9.
that said - i never set an alarm. - I can honestly say i've never avtively set an alarm to get up in the morning in > 20 years.
so if i'm awake - then i guess my body thinks i slept enough..
hard efforts are diferent. i usually do them early evening after a days thought and thinking about a race plan.
I usually have a couple sticky notes with paces, splits.
for shorter distances (*coff* < 60 mins) its usually music that accompanies me - ut2 is usually netflix/amazon prime/ plex... zombies...give me the zombies...
I quite like a longish UT2/3 in the morning before breakfast and kids. Anything else is not doable for me.
I don't really need any motivation for that.
I'm the only early morning person in the house (Dexter the malteser doesn't count) , in summer i might feel the erge to row at 5, weekends i'm usually the only person up and about until 9.
that said - i never set an alarm. - I can honestly say i've never avtively set an alarm to get up in the morning in > 20 years.
so if i'm awake - then i guess my body thinks i slept enough..
hard efforts are diferent. i usually do them early evening after a days thought and thinking about a race plan.
I usually have a couple sticky notes with paces, splits.
for shorter distances (*coff* < 60 mins) its usually music that accompanies me - ut2 is usually netflix/amazon prime/ plex... zombies...give me the zombies...
Dean
2020 Season: 196cm / 96kg : M51
Training Log - ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ -Blog
~seven days without rowing makes one weak~
2020 Season: 196cm / 96kg : M51
Training Log - ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ -Blog
~seven days without rowing makes one weak~
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lindsayh
- Half Marathon Poster
- Posts: 3640
- Joined: June 23rd, 2013, 3:32 am
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
Pretty much the opposite of what you do a lot of Dean!!bisqeet wrote:whats HIIT?
High Intensity Interval Training
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=154300&hilit=HIIT
Lindsay
73yo 93kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m
73yo 93kg
Sydney Australia
Forum Flyer
PBs (65y+) 1 min 349m, 500m 1:29.8, 1k 3:11.7 2k 6:47.4, 5km 18:07.9, 30' 7928m, 10k 37:57.2, 60' 15368m
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
just joking, lindsay - i must have forgot to put a smiley up there.lindsayh wrote:Pretty much the opposite of what you do a lot of Dean!!bisqeet wrote:whats HIIT?
High Intensity Interval Training
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=154300&hilit=HIIT
but you are right - i'm finding HIIT more and more of a problem with my knee during rating up.
the knee injections work to an extent, but theres always a few weeks before the next session that are a little painful.
mostly sticking to ~11W / stroke @R18 (~1W/lb) SS, but trying to up that whilst stopping in my confort zone
Dean
2020 Season: 196cm / 96kg : M51
Training Log - ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ -Blog
~seven days without rowing makes one weak~
2020 Season: 196cm / 96kg : M51
Training Log - ʕʘ̅͜ʘ̅ʔ -Blog
~seven days without rowing makes one weak~
Re: How do you get "in the zone" for a hard effort on the er
Be my quest. How about in reference to your existing quote: There's always enough time, you just do other things with it.Anth_F wrote:I was going to steal this quote for my sigPaulG wrote: There will be no "miracles on the erg".