What strength training plans/cross-training plans you usually do? Any recommendations for me?

[PleaseLockIn]

Yes, I agree the most with your post. I’ll do 5/3/1 wendler strength training, twice a week. Do you think it is too little?

I do feel I need to train my top end so sure, I’ll try it. Besides, whatever it takes at this point

And for higher rates, I’m trying it in intervals and in grey zone steady state…

Twice a week might be on the low side if looking to gain considerable strength; I am strength training 2x every 6 days but I am also more in "maintenance" mode than anything. That said, you're better off starting 2x a week for 6-9 weeks, seeing how things are going, and adjusting up from there, rather than starting out with too much and having to pull back.

The higher rates are a skill; if you don't use it, you will lose it so to speak. You can get mighty good, fast, and strong on the erg doing a lot of low rate work, but you'll never maximize your potential if you don't get comfortable with higher rates. It's one of my own weaknesses I am addressing by making sure I get higher rate work done once a week with more mid - moderate rate work done one additional time per week in addition to my lower rate aerobic work.

Yes, I started pretty conservatively and in the 5+ of 5/5/5 for week 1 decided not to do more even when I had more reps on the table. But even if not… I might be able to eke out a couple kilos more than my best, which is pretty bad.

I will keep at 2x a week for 6 weeks - I’ll probably skip the deload week. I’ll test myself on the 3rd week to set new estimated 1RM

Then what do I do? I usually have 1 hard interval session, 1 grey zone, then the rest easy SS. If interval call for R20 then do I practice higher rates with the grey zone session?

Even 2:19 r22 I can’t sustain for long before it drifts into AT. Do I accept it being AT? Or do I increase the rate anyways (though the stroke would be weak)?

[jcross485]

Yes, I started pretty conservatively and in the 5+ of 5/5/5 for week 1 decided not to do more even when I had more reps on the table. But even if not… I might be able to eke out a couple kilos more than my best, which is pretty bad.

I will keep at 2x a week for 6 weeks - I’ll probably skip the deload week. I’ll test myself on the 3rd week to set new estimated 1RM

Then what do I do? I usually have 1 hard interval session, 1 grey zone, then the rest easy SS. If interval call for R20 then do I practice higher rates with the grey zone session?

Even 2:19 r22 I can’t sustain for long before it drifts into AT. Do I accept it being AT? Or do I increase the rate anyways (though the stroke would be weak)?

If you're just starting out with the 5/3/1 program, the first week where you're hitting 65% x 5, 75% x 5, 85% x 5+, if you select the appropriate training max, your top set should be something you can hit for 10+ reps. If it's any closer to failure than that, you probably started with too high of a training max. For reference, I deadlifted 505lbs not too long ago and it was a pretty smooth rep; easily would have hit a double and potentially could have hit a triple. My deadlift training max right now is 435lbs and all of my weights are based on that.

As far as the deload week, I personally don't think you need to deload every 4th week, rather run two - 3 week cycles and deload on the 7th week. I would not test for a new 1RM; trust the program and if you want to test, just take the top set to RPE 9 (meaning one rep left in the tank) and you can pretty accurately project and track 1RM's from there.

With respect to the greater training program, it's really hard to say because training should not be just a session by session kind of thing. Training needs to be looked at more holistically and with the big picture in mind - overall goal with respect to training, number of sessions per week on the erg, number of cross-training sessions (if any), number of strength training sessions, number of weeks in a training block or cycle.

If I'm not mistaken, you're pretty young - you're in a prime part of life to really develop and lay a great foundation for the future. With that, don't get training ADD/ADHD. Figure out a short term (ie. 6-12 week) and long term (ie. 1 year) goal, build training around those, keep your head down, and do the work. Some of the best progress I've ever had in a few of the different areas I have pursued over the years happened when I set a goal, set a plan to reach the goal, stopped reading / researching everything I could and either second guessing myself or changing things too often, and just did the work. I have to constantly remind myself of that to this day; the accessibility to information now compared to say 20 years ago is a blessing and a curse.

[PleaseLockIn]

Yes, I started pretty conservatively and in the 5+ of 5/5/5 for week 1 decided not to do more even when I had more reps on the table. But even if not… I might be able to eke out a couple kilos more than my best, which is pretty bad.

I will keep at 2x a week for 6 weeks - I’ll probably skip the deload week. I’ll test myself on the 3rd week to set new estimated 1RM

Then what do I do? I usually have 1 hard interval session, 1 grey zone, then the rest easy SS. If interval call for R20 then do I practice higher rates with the grey zone session?

Even 2:19 r22 I can’t sustain for long before it drifts into AT. Do I accept it being AT? Or do I increase the rate anyways (though the stroke would be weak)?

If you're just starting out with the 5/3/1 program, the first week where you're hitting 65% x 5, 75% x 5, 85% x 5+, if you select the appropriate training max, your top set should be something you can hit for 10+ reps. If it's any closer to failure than that, you probably started with too high of a training max. For reference, I deadlifted 505lbs not too long ago and it was a pretty smooth rep; easily would have hit a double and potentially could have hit a triple. My deadlift training max right now is 435lbs and all of my weights are based on that.

As far as the deload week, I personally don't think you need to deload every 4th week, rather run two - 3 week cycles and deload on the 7th week. I would not test for a new 1RM; trust the program and if you want to test, just take the top set to RPE 9 (meaning one rep left in the tank) and you can pretty accurately project and track 1RM's from there.

With respect to the greater training program, it's really hard to say because training should not be just a session by session kind of thing. Training needs to be looked at more holistically and with the big picture in mind - overall goal with respect to training, number of sessions per week on the erg, number of cross-training sessions (if any), number of strength training sessions, number of weeks in a training block or cycle.

If I'm not mistaken, you're pretty young - you're in a prime part of life to really develop and lay a great foundation for the future. With that, don't get training ADD/ADHD. Figure out a short term (ie. 6-12 week) and long term (ie. 1 year) goal, build training around those, keep your head down, and do the work. Some of the best progress I've ever had in a few of the different areas I have pursued over the years happened when I set a goal, set a plan to reach the goal, stopped reading / researching everything I could and either second guessing myself or changing things too often, and just did the work. I have to constantly remind myself of that to this day; the accessibility to information now compared to say 20 years ago is a blessing and a curse.

I can hit the top set for 10+ reps, and there is still something left In the tank. I deadlifted 100kg * 10, from start to finish, full range, though the form is a bit questionable. I started with the bar too far from me. Not a strength issue, probably unknowingly ingrained bad habits. OHP 30kg * 10. Weak, but a start (for OHP). At least I am progressing, albeit slowly.

What about week 2 and 3? 8+ and 6+ reps?

2x strength train, 1x interval, 1x grey zone, perhaps 3x SS on erg and 1x crosstrain to avoid burnout.

Where do I put the high rate day? If I do 3x erg, 1x grey, 1x interval, 1x hard high rate, I am basically doing around a full Pete plan worth of work…

That is true, though I’ve missed most of the teen years inefficiently training. It could cost me my only chance at a university sports career. One of those times when I do regret my time management problems back then with insufficient training and insufficient academics…

Short term - in September get a 1:59 30r20
In some weeks? Idk? Try 2:05 30r20? Then how do I bridge the five seconds? Next week for intervals idk if I should start at 2:04 r20 for 5*750m 2R or risk it and go for 2:00 r20 2R and if I feel good accelerate to finish sub 2 at r20…

Long term: 1 year, 8000m 30r20? Sub 7 2k? Sub 6:50 2k? Maybe this is a bit ambitious though…

[alex9026]

2x strength train, 1x interval, 1x grey zone, perhaps 3x SS on erg and 1x crosstrain to avoid burnout.

Where do I put the high rate day? If I do 3x erg, 1x grey, 1x interval, 1x hard high rate, I am basically doing around a full Pete plan worth of work…

On the contrary, the above screams burnout to me. You acknowledge you find it challenging to balance studies and training and being blunt, you've made no progress. All I see here is you adding more work, when the simple fix could be just to take something away and recover . Let's establish a routine, as jcross highlights, it's easy to fall in to the trap of training ADHD. It really is a thing.

5/3/1 works if you give it time. It wouldn't be my choice at this stage but that's a different discussion. I would be cautious of chasing reps with "iffy form" though.

What's wrong with doing Pete plan worth of work and cutting back on the steady state? There is no magic pill or shortcut for you, just like there isn't for me and my goals or anyone else on the forum. You ask a lot of questions, but I've yet to see you apply any advice that people have taken the time to give you.

[PleaseLockIn]

2x strength train, 1x interval, 1x grey zone, perhaps 3x SS on erg and 1x crosstrain to avoid burnout.

Where do I put the high rate day? If I do 3x erg, 1x grey, 1x interval, 1x hard high rate, I am basically doing around a full Pete plan worth of work…

On the contrary, the above screams burnout to me. You acknowledge you find it challenging to balance studies and training and being blunt, you've made no progress. All I see here is you adding more work, when the simple fix could be just to take something away and recover . Let's establish a routine, as jcross highlights, it's easy to fall in to the trap of training ADHD. It really is a thing.

5/3/1 works if you give it time. It wouldn't be my choice at this stage but that's a different discussion. I would be cautious of chasing reps with "iffy form" though.

What's wrong with doing Pete plan worth of work and cutting back on the steady state? There is no magic pill or shortcut for you, just like there isn't for me and my goals or anyone else on the forum. You ask a lot of questions, but I've yet to see you apply any advice that people have taken the time to give you.

To be blunt bro I decided to follow 5/3/1 as one of jcross’s recommendations and stick to it so there is the routine there. I have followed various advice that others have given like switching to 5/3/1 and I will not increase the progression.

I also listened to jcross and others’ advice on keeping high rate work. This is why I tried increasing to r25 and plan to increase more to keep that part.

100kg deadlift PB to that for 100kg x 10 isn’t a terrible deadlift improvement. There is progress albeit slower that I expected…

I have applied others’ advice to an extent. No „max tests” in steady state even if coach demands it. I remember someone else advised that. Saying that I do not apply others advice here is frankly, incorrect.

[Sakly]

2x strength train, 1x interval, 1x grey zone, perhaps 3x SS on erg and 1x crosstrain to avoid burnout.

If you do all this stuff on individual days, respect. I don't know the details about these sessions, so I can't tell, if this is going to burn you out or not, but on the first glance it looks too much, as it adds up to 8 sessions of which at least 4 have quite high intensity. No idea about your cross train session. 8 sessions don't fit in a week, so obviously there is some +- in your cross training or steady erg sessions, which is fine. Do you have at least one rest day? This list reads like no, you don't have.

I go for 3x gym and mostly 3 erg sessions, of which one could be a hard one. One gym session includes short intervals at the end. I am on the edge with recovery and need to wisely decide about the sessions. Sometimes I have weeks with no rest day and these can tip me over the edge.

[alex9026]

To be blunt bro I decided to follow 5/3/1 as one of jcross’s recommendations and stick to it so there is the routine there. I have followed various advice that others have given like switching to 5/3/1 and I will not increase the progression.

I also listened to jcross and others’ advice on keeping high rate work. This is why I tried increasing to r25 and plan to increase more to keep that part.

100kg deadlift PB to that for 100kg x 10 isn’t a terrible deadlift improvement. There is progress albeit slower that I expected…

I have applied others’ advice to an extent. No „max tests” in steady state even if coach demands it. I remember someone else advised that. Saying that I do not apply others advice here is frankly, incorrect.

I'm not your "bro". I wish you the best with your erg'ing...

[PleaseLockIn]

2x strength train, 1x interval, 1x grey zone, perhaps 3x SS on erg and 1x crosstrain to avoid burnout.

If you do all this stuff on individual days, respect. I don't know the details about these sessions, so I can't tell, if this is going to burn you out or not, but on the first glance it looks too much, as it adds up to 8 sessions of which at least 4 have quite high intensity. No idea about your cross train session. 8 sessions don't fit in a week, so obviously there is some +- in your cross training or steady erg sessions, which is fine. Do you have at least one rest day? This list reads like no, you don't have.

I go for 3x gym and mostly 3 erg sessions, of which one could be a hard one. One gym session includes short intervals at the end. I am on the edge with recovery and need to wisely decide about the sessions. Sometimes I have weeks with no rest day and these can tip me over the edge.

First - yes I have at least 1 rest day. Occasionally (public holidays/other events) I have 2. I get 1 rest day with 8 sessions by training twice a day on two days.

This week I did 7, 1 day was public holiday. So 2 rest days. I trained twice a day for 2 days to get this.

My 2x gym is 5/3/1 Jim wendler. Not pushing that hard on final set. I trust the program.

Steady state - kept at UT2 HR/intensity (HR cap ~160). These days I try to build back up to 1h UT2. Around 2:28-ish r18. Sometimes I do it a bit shorter.

Grey zone - around 40 min. Did 4’3’2’1 @ 18/20/22/20. R18 at 2:29 ish, r20 at 2:24 r22 at 2:19. 3 rounds. Then cooldown with 4’ at r18. It almost got into AT - though I could try to reduce the intensity…

1x interval - BPP hard day. Sometimes I try 1:59 r20 and hang on… other times I try jacking up the rate and maintaining reasonable W/min to avoid neglecting the high rates. Those who advised me this are right - I shouldn’t neglect them. I could do it almost max or pretty intense.

Crosstrain - perhaps 15-30 min Z2 run or 30-60 min Z2 bike?

On days where I have my strength training, I shorten the steady state beforehand. E.g. 8000m UT2. Or even 30min UT2 depending on time.

[p_b82]

To be blunt bro I decided to follow 5/3/1 as one of jcross’s recommendations and stick to it so there is the routine there. I have followed various advice that others have given like switching to 5/3/1 and I will not increase the progression.

I also listened to jcross and others’ advice on keeping high rate work. This is why I tried increasing to r25 and plan to increase more to keep that part.

100kg deadlift PB to that for 100kg x 10 isn’t a terrible deadlift improvement. There is progress albeit slower that I expected…

I have applied others’ advice to an extent. No „max tests” in steady state even if coach demands it. I remember someone else advised that. Saying that I do not apply others advice here is frankly, incorrect.

Not wanting to be rude, but you've followed about 4 different plans in a few months at this stage that I can remember, and your current workload your wrote looks even higher then when you said you had burnout before.

Being a pedant here, but r25 is not high rate - or anywhere close - high rate is 30+ (and my mind it's at the closer side of 40 than the low end of 30, as I can rate 30+ strapless - albeit at a cost of a bit of length/form).

There is also absolutely nothing wrong with using a TT/max effort as a hard session - I'd not do one weekly myself with a high training volume, but every couple of weeks I'd say is not an issue - especially if you look at different distances to get the different training effects.

RE your goals - IMO don't just pluck numbers out of the air that you like the sound of - they must be grounded on some realism or they become demotivating by being unobtainable.

You've been on the forum now for 6 months - you had a go at 30r20 a while back and it was sub 7k - I've not seen you have another go at it - or free rate since.
Do you know where you are in comparison to before so you can see whether you've improved or not?

You can do all the training in the world, but if it doesn't result in tangible improvements, then it will suggest that the focus is in the wrong place- and the only way to see that improvement is to do actual tests.

You keep referring to having coach - why have you and them not sat down and worked out a plan for you?
Seems crazy that you'd have access to a coach and you'd scratch around "adapting" things online to kinda suit what you think you're trying to achieve.
They'd be the right people to set a plan to help you meet the goals and be able to measure your improvements properly.

You've alluded to your form a few times - why have you not worked with the coach to iron it out?

It seems to me either one of two things:
1) you go to a rowing session where there is a coach and do what they tell the people they are actively coaching (but aren't directly involved yourself)
2) you're not actually asking for the help that you ought be taking advantage of.

And I'm not saying this to just be an arse - but I do get more confused by your mindset/approaches as time goes on.

[PleaseLockIn]

To be blunt bro I decided to follow 5/3/1 as one of jcross’s recommendations and stick to it so there is the routine there. I have followed various advice that others have given like switching to 5/3/1 and I will not increase the progression.

I also listened to jcross and others’ advice on keeping high rate work. This is why I tried increasing to r25 and plan to increase more to keep that part.

100kg deadlift PB to that for 100kg x 10 isn’t a terrible deadlift improvement. There is progress albeit slower that I expected…

I have applied others’ advice to an extent. No „max tests” in steady state even if coach demands it. I remember someone else advised that. Saying that I do not apply others advice here is frankly, incorrect.

Not wanting to be rude, but you've followed about 4 different plans in a few months at this stage that I can remember, and your current workload your wrote looks even higher then when you said you had burnout before.

Being a pedant here, but r25 is not high rate - or anywhere close - high rate is 30+ (and my mind it's at the closer side of 40 than the low end of 30, as I can rate 30+ strapless - albeit at a cost of a bit of length/form).

There is also absolutely nothing wrong with using a TT/max effort as a hard session - I'd not do one weekly myself with a high training volume, but every couple of weeks I'd say is not an issue - especially if you look at different distances to get the different training effects.

RE your goals - IMO don't just pluck numbers out of the air that you like the sound of - they must be grounded on some realism or they become demotivating by being unobtainable.

You've been on the forum now for 6 months - you had a go at 30r20 a while back and it was sub 7k - I've not seen you have another go at it - or free rate since.
Do you know where you are in comparison to before so you can see whether you've improved or not?

You can do all the training in the world, but if it doesn't result in tangible improvements, then it will suggest that the focus is in the wrong place- and the only way to see that improvement is to do actual tests.

You keep referring to having coach - why have you and them not sat down and worked out a plan for you?
Seems crazy that you'd have access to a coach and you'd scratch around "adapting" things online to kinda suit what you think you're trying to achieve.
They'd be the right people to set a plan to help you meet the goals and be able to measure your improvements properly.

You've alluded to your form a few times - why have you not worked with the coach to iron it out?

It seems to me either one of two things:
1) you go to a rowing session where there is a coach and do what they tell the people they are actively coaching (but aren't directly involved yourself)
2) you're not actually asking for the help that you ought be taking advantage of.

And I'm not saying this to just be an arse - but I do get more confused by your mindset/approaches as time goes on.

High rates training isn’t instantaneous. R25 is not high. But I plan to increase the rating gradually for a day to train high rates.

During that Pete Plan 5k phase I was also doing other stuff, AND my steady state was far too fast. It often drifted into AT. Here, on easy days I keep it below UT1 no matter what.

Then I would do a TT every 2-3 weeks. I think that’s reasonable. 4? My previous 23r20 in Mar was 2:07 pace. Not good. Wonder when to try… or should I swap a BPP interval for this hard TT?

I have asked my coach for help on form. He only replied a bit about 5 mins being his warmup. I have asked before and apparently he was down with COVID (1 wk ago). He last responded a few days ago. I honestly don’t know what he is doing. At his rate, he may not respond until early June.

The coach (member of uni varsity rowing team) coaches me 1-1 on form and I do what he tells me to do when he is coaching me. That is what happened when he told me to sprint after a UT1 session which drifted into AT even when I slowed to 2:20 from 2:18, some time back.

So it is not 2). And it isn’t too rude - I’ve seen what it sounds like for genuine over the top rudeness and that is NOT pretty…

[jcross485]

I can hit the top set for 10+ reps, and there is still something left In the tank. I deadlifted 100kg * 10, from start to finish, full range, though the form is a bit questionable. I started with the bar too far from me. Not a strength issue, probably unknowingly ingrained bad habits. OHP 30kg * 10. Weak, but a start (for OHP). At least I am progressing, albeit slowly.

What about week 2 and 3? 8+ and 6+ reps?

2x strength train, 1x interval, 1x grey zone, perhaps 3x SS on erg and 1x crosstrain to avoid burnout.

Where do I put the high rate day? If I do 3x erg, 1x grey, 1x interval, 1x hard high rate, I am basically doing around a full Pete plan worth of work…

That is true, though I’ve missed most of the teen years inefficiently training. It could cost me my only chance at a university sports career. One of those times when I do regret my time management problems back then with insufficient training and insufficient academics…

Short term - in September get a 1:59 30r20
In some weeks? Idk? Try 2:05 30r20? Then how do I bridge the five seconds? Next week for intervals idk if I should start at 2:04 r20 for 5*750m 2R or risk it and go for 2:00 r20 2R and if I feel good accelerate to finish sub 2 at r20…

Long term: 1 year, 8000m 30r20? Sub 7 2k? Sub 6:50 2k? Maybe this is a bit ambitious though…

Progress with the Wendler program is intended to be slow and steady over time. He always emphasizes starting light and progressing slow; it seems like you're on the right track for that. Keep the big picture in mind - the weights you hit in 3 weeks, 6 weeks, etc. don't matter nearly as much as staying consistent and progressing over 6 months or a year. One thing I have had to be cognizant of is the actual weight on the bar; at the end of the day, unless I am going to enter a competition, it doesn't really matter. The weight is just a means to an end.

If you're doing what you say, you have 8 sessions and are talking about adding a 9th by way of a high rate day. That's a lot of training. You're young and I presume you have more time and less responsibility than I do currently with a career, wife, two kids in activities, etc., so you very well could make it work, but I would ensure that I am looking less at what I potentially can do and more at what I know I can always do consistently. Essentially, I like to plan around the least I know I will be able to do consistently and anything I can add is a plus. For reference, when I was in college / university as a student athlete, I was taking 18 credits a semester and competing in a sport that has both a fall semester season (invitationals and tournaments, etc.) and a spring season (duals vs. other universities, then conference tournaments and NCAA tournaments). Back then, I thought I had a lot on my plate. At the time, it was the most I had ever taken on but it does pale in comparison to now. Hindsight is always 20/20 though.

That said, how to structure the 8-9 sessions per week? That's very much personal preference. Now, if I was in your shoes, I can speak to how I would try to set up the 8-9 sessions per week, but again, you need to find what works best for you and what you can be consistent with. Please don't take this outline as being optimal for you; it's what I think would be optimal for me if I was trying to do the same 8-9 sessions. My preference is to consolidate stressors if possible, meaning the hard days tend to be hard and the easy days tend to be easy. I also prefer to do cardiovascular / endurance work in the mornings and strength work in the afternoons; my current schedule allows me to train once a day as noted and generally in the morning.

Mon - Steady State (AM)
Tues - Grey Zone (AM), Strength (PM)
Wed - Steady State (AM)
Thurs - High Rate (AM), Cross Train (PM)
Fri - Steady State (AM)
Sat - Intervals (AM), Strength (PM)
Sun - OFF

Making progress over time isn't necessarily easy but its simple; it's something I tell my kids all the time - a lot of things in life aren't that complicated but it doesn't mean it's easy. Figure out your current marks for key grey zone, higher rate, and interval sessions, then the next time you do the same session, try to beat the split by .1/500. Do that over a long period of time and you will get faster.

For me, I have three distinct threshold effort sessions (20 x 500m on :30 rest, 12 x 750m on :45 rest, 8 x 1000m on 1:00 rest) and three distinct interval sessions (20 x 250m on 1:00 rest, 12 x 375m on 1:30 rest, 8 x 500m on 2:00 rest). I don't say this to tell you what kind of sessions to do; that needs to be your own decision. These just happen to be the sessions I have settled on for now. Again, it's set up for me and my goals. I track my average split or power for each session and my average HR for each session. The next time that particular session comes up (roughly once every 2 1/2 or 3 weeks, maybe longer if I am off the erg due to work and travel), I simply try to beat the split by .1/500m or at least maintain the split with the same or lower HR. For me, it's getting harder to rely on HR because I train in my garage and where I live is getting hot - late fall, winter, and early spring months are close to perfect but now it's into the 90's and even 100's (F) in the garage so HR is up and I sweat...a lot. If I trained in a bit more climate controlled environment, I would look at HR more consistently.

I'm also at a point where I have some targets in the back of my head that I want to hit but I don't have a timeline, I don't have any kind of deadline, and I am enjoying the process and journey. I am very confident that I will hit the targets I have set if I keep training consistently, but when I hit them I am not sure and frankly it doesn't matter to me. I also am not setting a cap on what I could potentially hit down the road. Even though I am 40, I am still only a few years into the erg and am very much of the belief that I am far from any kind of ceiling.

[PleaseLockIn]

I can hit the top set for 10+ reps, and there is still something left In the tank. I deadlifted 100kg * 10, from start to finish, full range, though the form is a bit questionable. I started with the bar too far from me. Not a strength issue, probably unknowingly ingrained bad habits. OHP 30kg * 10. Weak, but a start (for OHP). At least I am progressing, albeit slowly.

What about week 2 and 3? 8+ and 6+ reps?

2x strength train, 1x interval, 1x grey zone, perhaps 3x SS on erg and 1x crosstrain to avoid burnout.

Where do I put the high rate day? If I do 3x erg, 1x grey, 1x interval, 1x hard high rate, I am basically doing around a full Pete plan worth of work…

That is true, though I’ve missed most of the teen years inefficiently training. It could cost me my only chance at a university sports career. One of those times when I do regret my time management problems back then with insufficient training and insufficient academics…

Short term - in September get a 1:59 30r20
In some weeks? Idk? Try 2:05 30r20? Then how do I bridge the five seconds? Next week for intervals idk if I should start at 2:04 r20 for 5*750m 2R or risk it and go for 2:00 r20 2R and if I feel good accelerate to finish sub 2 at r20…

Long term: 1 year, 8000m 30r20? Sub 7 2k? Sub 6:50 2k? Maybe this is a bit ambitious though…

Progress with the Wendler program is intended to be slow and steady over time. He always emphasizes starting light and progressing slow; it seems like you're on the right track for that. Keep the big picture in mind - the weights you hit in 3 weeks, 6 weeks, etc. don't matter nearly as much as staying consistent and progressing over 6 months or a year. One thing I have had to be cognizant of is the actual weight on the bar; at the end of the day, unless I am going to enter a competition, it doesn't really matter. The weight is just a means to an end.

If you're doing what you say, you have 8 sessions and are talking about adding a 9th by way of a high rate day. That's a lot of training. You're young and I presume you have more time and less responsibility than I do currently with a career, wife, two kids in activities, etc., so you very well could make it work, but I would ensure that I am looking less at what I potentially can do and more at what I know I can always do consistently. Essentially, I like to plan around the least I know I will be able to do consistently and anything I can add is a plus. For reference, when I was in college / university as a student athlete, I was taking 18 credits a semester and competing in a sport that has both a fall semester season (invitationals and tournaments, etc.) and a spring season (duals vs. other universities, then conference tournaments and NCAA tournaments). Back then, I thought I had a lot on my plate. At the time, it was the most I had ever taken on but it does pale in comparison to now. Hindsight is always 20/20 though.

That said, how to structure the 8-9 sessions per week? That's very much personal preference. Now, if I was in your shoes, I can speak to how I would try to set up the 8-9 sessions per week, but again, you need to find what works best for you and what you can be consistent with. Please don't take this outline as being optimal for you; it's what I think would be optimal for me if I was trying to do the same 8-9 sessions. My preference is to consolidate stressors if possible, meaning the hard days tend to be hard and the easy days tend to be easy. I also prefer to do cardiovascular / endurance work in the mornings and strength work in the afternoons; my current schedule allows me to train once a day as noted and generally in the morning.

Mon - Steady State (AM)
Tues - Grey Zone (AM), Strength (PM)
Wed - Steady State (AM)
Thurs - High Rate (AM), Cross Train (PM)
Fri - Steady State (AM)
Sat - Intervals (AM), Strength (PM)
Sun - OFF

Making progress over time isn't necessarily easy but its simple; it's something I tell my kids all the time - a lot of things in life aren't that complicated but it doesn't mean it's easy. Figure out your current marks for key grey zone, higher rate, and interval sessions, then the next time you do the same session, try to beat the split by .1/500. Do that over a long period of time and you will get faster.

For me, I have three distinct threshold effort sessions (20 x 500m on :30 rest, 12 x 750m on :45 rest, 8 x 1000m on 1:00 rest) and three distinct interval sessions (20 x 250m on 1:00 rest, 12 x 375m on 1:30 rest, 8 x 500m on 2:00 rest). I don't say this to tell you what kind of sessions to do; that needs to be your own decision. These just happen to be the sessions I have settled on for now. Again, it's set up for me and my goals. I track my average split or power for each session and my average HR for each session. The next time that particular session comes up (roughly once every 2 1/2 or 3 weeks, maybe longer if I am off the erg due to work and travel), I simply try to beat the split by .1/500m or at least maintain the split with the same or lower HR. For me, it's getting harder to rely on HR because I train in my garage and where I live is getting hot - late fall, winter, and early spring months are close to perfect but now it's into the 90's and even 100's (F) in the garage so HR is up and I sweat...a lot. If I trained in a bit more climate controlled environment, I would look at HR more consistently.

I'm also at a point where I have some targets in the back of my head that I want to hit but I don't have a timeline, I don't have any kind of deadline, and I am enjoying the process and journey. I am very confident that I will hit the targets I have set if I keep training consistently, but when I hit them I am not sure and frankly it doesn't matter to me. I also am not setting a cap on what I could potentially hit down the road. Even though I am 40, I am still only a few years into the erg and am very much of the belief that I am far from any kind of ceiling.

For strength training I don’t have a weight target - I will trust the program. If I can hit 8/6 reps of final set for week 2/3 then my 1RM will have mathematically increased and that is good enough to show there is progress.

The least I can do consistently is 7 sessions. One day rest, 1 day gone for other activities I need to do. 3 sessions for 3 days, twice a day training for two days.

You’re right. I may do a full time internship in the summer. But this pales in comparison to what you have to do! You got a 1:40 6k… with all the stuff you had to do. Respect. Impressive. Now THAT is what I call motivation even when some people in my university lick my boots and think I am Superman (lol). And it shows how much work I need to do to rise to an impressive level in rowing.

9 sessions would probably be too much… 8 I am already a bit iffy on. I have 5*750 2R this week and if I can hold 2:00 r20 then at least my intervals would be trial pace. I will keep .1/500 in mind as that is still an improvement. I can overreach so good to keep in check

I do enjoy the pain of pushing harder and ekeing out an improvement. And I do know I am far from my ceiling, even if my progress has been glacially slow these days

[p_b82]

High rates training isn’t instantaneous. R25 is not high. But I plan to increase the rating gradually for a day to train high rates.

During that Pete Plan 5k phase I was also doing other stuff, AND my steady state was far too fast. It often drifted into AT. Here, on easy days I keep it below UT1 no matter what.

Then I would do a TT every 2-3 weeks. I think that’s reasonable. 4? My previous 23r20 in Mar was 2:07 pace. Not good. Wonder when to try… or should I swap a BPP interval for this hard TT?

I have asked my coach for help on form. He only replied a bit about 5 mins being his warmup. I have asked before and apparently he was down with COVID (1 wk ago). He last responded a few days ago. I honestly don’t know what he is doing. At his rate, he may not respond until early June.

The coach (member of uni varsity rowing team) coaches me 1-1 on form and I do what he tells me to do when he is coaching me. That is what happened when he told me to sprint after a UT1 session which drifted into AT even when I slowed to 2:20 from 2:18, some time back.

So it is not 2). And it isn’t too rude - I’ve seen what it sounds like for genuine over the top rudeness and that is NOT pretty…

There's "training for high rates" and there's "including high rate in your training" and they are two very different things.

The former is continuously and incrementally working on form and power getting the rate higher and higher - to target something like a LowPull, 1min or 500m PB.

the latter, is to just do the work at the higher rates - and IMO the intervals in the PP or BPP (as it is aimed at a 2k) should be at 2k ratings - ~30.

I really can't say what's a reasonable TT/Max effort as part of your schedule - I'd not be wanting to go more than 2 months with a specific goal in mind without testing it at that distance myself. (but apart from the FM, I've never worked on hitting anything specifically, just happen to set a pb from other training)
But having an all out go at a 2k, 5k or 6k,10k as interim pacing predictions has it's uses IMO - if you're miles off your predictions in those events it will give you a steer on where you need to focus your work.

EG if the 10k is "easy" it's the power side of the 30min - vice versa if you can't get up to the pace you need in the 5k etc.

IMO the 23r20 means nothing - there's a world more of the pain cave to enter in that last 7 mins - It takes me to get into the last 4 mins to get the light at the end of the tunnel boost, but those previous 3mins are where (for me) it is really hurting mentally.

[jcross485]

For strength training I don’t have a weight target - I will trust the program. If I can hit 8/6 reps of final set for week 2/3 then my 1RM will have mathematically increased and that is good enough to show there is progress.

The least I can do consistently is 7 sessions. One day rest, 1 day gone for other activities I need to do. 3 sessions for 3 days, twice a day training for two days.

You’re right. I may do a full time internship in the summer. But this pales in comparison to what you have to do! You got a 1:40 6k… with all the stuff you had to do. Respect. Impressive. Now THAT is what I call motivation even when some people in my university lick my boots and think I am Superman (lol). And it shows how much work I need to do to rise to an impressive level in rowing.

9 sessions would probably be too much… 8 I am already a bit iffy on. I have 5*750 2R this week and if I can hold 2:00 r20 then at least my intervals would be trial pace. I will keep .1/500 in mind as that is still an improvement. I can overreach so good to keep in check

I do enjoy the pain of pushing harder and ekeing out an improvement. And I do know I am far from my ceiling, even if my progress has been glacially slow these days

You must be confusing me for someone else; a 1:40 / 500m 6k is much, much faster than what I have in me right now but who knows what the future holds!

One quote that has resonated with me more as I've gotten older - "comparison is the thief of joy". It's inspiring to see what people are capable of but try not to compare your performance / results with them. It's a bit of a fine line but it really is important IMO. At the end of the day, the only thing you can control is trying to be better than you were a day ago, a week ago, a month ago, etc. Over time, if you are consistent, you will look back and see how far you've come.

I came to the erg with pretty darn good aerobic fitness after running a fair amount of volume and having some decent 5k/10k/HM times. That said, I just looked back at my logbook from the early days (2022), ie. a month or so in after I got somewhat proficient with the technique.

At that time, I was struggling to maintain 165 watts for 5k / 6k without my HR getting into the 160's. Temps in my garage where I train were in the 60's at that time.

Yesterday, I did 8 x 1k at about 230 watts and HR was in the low 160's. My last aerobic session was a few days ago; 3 x 5k (1:00 rest) which was done at 188 watts and HR never got into the 150's. Temps in my garage were in the 80's and 90's, maybe touching 100 yesterday.

This is all over the course of a bit over 3 years. There was some inconsistency in training on the erg due to extended work travel (a couple of trips which were multiple months; many other trips that were several days to a week long or more, etc.) that probably set me a bit further behind than I could be right now had those things not happened, but in the grand scheme of things, I am completely different fitness wise on the erg in the span of 3 years, and 3 years really is not that long of a period of time. In another 3, 5, 10 years, I can only hypothesize where I might be if I am consistent and intelligent with training. In order to realize those potential gains, I am just focused on incrementally chipping away each session.

On the progress front though, the one thing I have noticed in just about everything I have pursued (strength training and powerlifting, running, and now erging), once you get past the "newbie gains", progress seems to come in steps for me. I'll go a fair amount of time where things seem to be stagnant but I keep putting in work consistently and trusting the process; then, out of nowhere, things seem to "explode" for a lack of better words and all of the work is realized into a result. That result becomes the new baseline and the process starts all over again with a whole bunch of work that seems to be stagnant, then another big pop.

[reuben]

On the progress front though, the one thing I have noticed in just about everything I have pursued (strength training and powerlifting, running, and now erging), once you get past the "newbie gains", progress seems to come in steps for me. I'll go a fair amount of time where things seem to be stagnant but I keep putting in work consistently and trusting the process; then, out of nowhere, things seem to "explode" for a lack of better words and all of the work is realized into a result. That result becomes the new baseline and the process starts all over again with a whole bunch of work that seems to be stagnant, then another big pop.

I've experienced the same. I don't count on them happening, and there's never any sign when one might happen. They're just gifts.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I was a skinny young triathlete. When I had enough time to train, I noted that my progress often happened in discrete steps.

An example is that for months I would run a local ~10k route at the same pace, notably struggling and slowing on some of the rolling hills. Then one day I would suddenly be running 5s/mile faster, and I was faster up the hills, and felt better doing so. And this improvement would remain - it wasn't just a one off good day. A few months later another discrete improvement might happen, and again, for no apparent reason. Something just clicked in my brain or body, and I made a jump. It certainly helped that I would sometimes run that route twice in a single day, but what's really important is that my improvements were discrete, not gradual or continuous (linear or otherwise).